KRAMER challenge
facilitator
Registered: Apr 2004 Location: Broward County,
FL. Posts: 506 |
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Here's
another email exchange I've just stopped participating in,
from someone who refuses to apply because when he wins, "the
bonds might be worthless". He refuses to even state his claim,
and continues to demand information on the prize
fund.
...and he just keeps comin' at
me...
=============================================
Hello, On
your website, it states: "The prize is in the form of
negotiable bonds held in a special investment
account."
>and=
"At the formal test, in
advance, an independent person will be placed in charge of
a personal check from James Randi for US$10,000. In the event
that the claimant is successful under the agreed terms and
conditions, that check shall be immediately surrendered to the
claimant, and within ten days the James Randi Educational
Foundation will pay to the claimant the remainder of the
reward, for a total of US$1,000,000. One million dollars in
negotiable bonds is held by an investment firm in New York, in
the "James Randi Educational Foundation Prize Account" as
surety for the prize funds. Validation of this account and its
current status may be obtained by contacting the Foundation by
telephone, fax, or e-mail."
My questions surround the
form the money is in, and how it will be delivered. The
$10,000 will be delivered in check, which means I will have
access to use it all once the check clears; is this
correct? The bonds I will not have access to, on the other
hand... Where do the bonds come from (what corporations issued
the bonds), what are the interest rates on the bonds, and when
is the maturity date on the bonds? I.e., When will I have
access to the $1mil, and how much money can I expect on a
monthly basis generated from interest?
Thank you. -
Sean
Connelly
===========================================
Randi's
reply...
Immediately convertible into
money.
That's all I'm going to get involved
in.
Apply, or don't apply.
James
Randi.
===========================================
Hello,
There
is no problem, just a lack of understanding. You are the one
making the offer, so I want to be clear on what you are
offering. I'm not asking for consolation - I'm just asking for
clarification. You state that you are offering 1 million
dollars, in the form of negotiable bonds. It is a logical step
to ask about the bonds. The questions aren't aimed for
consoling me, they are aimed at getting more specific detail
about the bonds. Who issued the bonds? What are their annual
fees/rates? And when is the maturity date? Anyone who is
serious about the challenge would ask these questions. I
believe they are fair questions, and relevant to the
challenge.
- Sean
Connelly
============================================
At
this point, Randi told the guy that he would not divulge any
further data regarding the prize fund, and to "deal with
Kramer".
I wrote to introduce myself, and got this in
return...
Hello, Randi said the negotiable bonds
were "Immediately convertible into money.". I'm trying to
figure out the actual WORTH of the bonds. Normal bonds are
issued by corporations or the government, and have an anual
fee that the issuer will pay the person who owns the bonds,
and they have a maturity date for when the issuer is required
to pay the principal. For example, if the bonds principal
totals to $1mil, but they don't mature for another 40 years,
then they're almost worthless to me. So technically Randi
COULD say the bonds are worth $1mil, but in reality they are
pretty worthless. However, I doubt that's the case. I was
trying to get some actual facts and numbers to work
with.
I assume the $10,000 delivered in check can be
immediately cashed. I'm wondering who issued the bonds (what
corporations), what the anual fee is, and when the maturity
date is. Like I said, I think these are very relevant to the
challenge. If my reward is a bunch of worthless bonds, then
it's pointless. Do you see my perspective?
Thanks for
offering your help.- Sean
Connelly
==============================================
My
reply:
So far, sir, you're just full of baloney.
That's OUR perspective.
Apply or go away. We don't have
to prove anything to you. The Challenge application, once
signed, becomes a contract. If you understood what a contract
is, you wouldn't be needling us about your fears over not
getting the million dollars.
If you really have a
claim, you'll apply.
Do you have a paranormal claim,
sir?
More emails like this one and we'll just be
convinced you're not serious about the Challenge. Let us know
if you have any intention whatsoever of actually applying.
Otherwise, you can just stop these emails right now, as we
will NOT be responding to any more of your diatribes about
the prize fund.
-Kramer, JREF Paranormal Claims
Dept.
=============================================
Hello, I
don't understand what I did to make you angry. All I'm doing
is asking questions about the bonds. I haven't CLAIMED
anything, and I'm only asking questions. The definition of
what a "bond" is can be found on the internet. If I really
have a claim, and the bonds are worthless, why would I apply?
I really don't care whether you believe my claims or not, and
I really don't care whether I can convince you. I care
about the money. Your organization is offering the money,
and your organization parades around like it would be so
easy for someone with real paranormal abilities to get the
money. What sort of attention did you expect? I am asking
about the bonds. This is a logical series of
questions.
You are not offering 1 million cash - you
are offering 1 million in negotiable bonds. Who issued the
bonds, what are the rates, and when do they mature? Usually
the skeptic is suppose to wait until the crazy person actually
makes a paranormal claim before telling them they're full of
it. I'm not talking about the paranormal - I'm talking about
money.
- Sean
Connelly
=============================================
Exactly.
You haven't even submitted a claim. We don't even know what
you do, except that you're obsessed with the Million Dollars'
very existence. The answers to all your questions about the
bonds is this: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
The Challenge
states that One Million Dollars will be awarded to anyone
who proves the existence of paranormal phenomenon. That's all
you need to know. The Challenge application is a contract. So
show some respect for the Challenge and its assurances, and
you'll begin to get some respect from US in return, and maybe
even some respect for your claim, should you ever choose to
submit one.
I'm not answering any more questions about
the funds. APPLY, or go away.
-Kramer, JREF Paranormal
Claims
Dept.
==============================================
Hello,
I
would like to have respect for the Challenge and it's
assurances, except that I've researched the history of the
Challenge, and the skeptics of the Challenge bring up valid
points. Randi is quick to instruct others to read things
carefully, think with a skeptical mind, and research until
all the facts are present. But once that same level of
scrutiny is focused on him, he immediately turns to
insults and ultimatums. Yes, I am skeptical if the money is
accessable in cash form. The same way you're skeptical if I
can demonstrate anything paranormal. The cure is to research
and investigate - which is what you are doing with JREF - and
it's what I am doing by e-mailing you and asking you
questions.
With everything that JREF, Randi, and
yourself have presented, it is very possible that the bonds
have very low rates, are backed up by unstable corporations,
and won't mature for another 40 years. If I somehow won them,
they could liquidate in a week, and I would be left with LESS
money. You have provided me with nothing to make me think
otherwise. Therefore, I am skeptical of YOUR claims. But
"skeptical" doesn't mean I secretly judge something, then
front a public image to make myself sound balanced.
"Skeptical" means I investigate before making a decision. So
that's what I'm doing by asking questions about the bonds.
I'm investigating.
If this is a fair challenge, and you
aren't hiding any tricks, loopholes, or backdoors, then my
request for information wouldn't be a big deal. Instead you
reply with "NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS", and "Apply or go away"...
now what am I suppose to think? Basically, you're telling me
you won't divulge any information until I sign my name on the
very application I skeptical of.
YOU are offering the
challenge. So I'm asking for clairification on what YOU are
offering. If you don't want this kind of attention, then stop
parading the challenge around publically and implying that it
proves paranormal phenomenon don't exist. I am open to the
idea of applying, but I refuse to apply if the bonds are
worthless. I do not know if the bonds are worthless or not.
The only thing I have gotten from these e-mails is that they
are "convertiable to money", and that I should have "respect
for the Challenge and it's assurances".
You have an
extraodinary claim that you will give $1mil to the person who
proves paranormal phenomenon exist. I am asking for some
extraodinary evidence to back that up. Is this not what you
preach?
- Sean
Connelly
=============================================
Sir,
you clearly have no intention of applying, and never
did. Goodbye.
-Kramer, JREF
__________________ KRAMER, JREF Paranormal
Claims Dept.
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