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Anyone know alchemy?

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Posted on Tue May 23, 2006 8:18 pm

mattz1010

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 885

reverse chemistry? Razz

al
chemy

chem
isry

Then again, I have no knowledge what "al" means.

1K heat?

...degrees C, F, or K?

and 1K is quite low...just one degree (celcius) above absolute zero.

As intervals for C and K are the same, K just has 0 at absolute zero.

Posted on Tue May 23, 2006 8:36 pm

Lightbringer

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 293

When one puts a capital "K", that should be a dead obvious clue that the units of Kelvin are being used. Yes, I do realize that's a small temperature, but that's basically when all the interesting behaviour scientists are currently studying start to occur for atoms.

Posted on Wed May 24, 2006 3:56 pm

Dbizket

Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 85

Yamamaya wrote:

haha... you watch too much Full Metal Alchemist.

i dunno. i suppose it would take too much energy to molecularly alter an item, and since we don't know everything there is to know about molecules, the attempts may be too small to notice, or not work at all.

meh.

Eh, it's a good show but I don't watch it as much as I should, being the anime fan that I am. I just have a lot of friends who are good with energy manipulation and one supposedly knows someone who knows alchemy. How much he gets it to work however, I have no idea. But it seems possible but very difficult.

The only successful alchemy recorded was some guy who was able to turn his urine into Phosphorus but he died shortly after (I think from the chemical reaction)

Posted on Thu May 25, 2006 11:30 am

Lucidess

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 837

Yes yes it's always someone dying shortly after they've successfully completed alchemy.. as it seems.

Posted on Tue May 30, 2006 11:40 pm

windguardian

Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 18

Alchemy actually originates from the Arabian term: Al-Kimiya, where "Al" is just an Arabian prefix for something (not quite sure, but a LOT of Arabian words have "Al" in front). Kimiya was supposed to be a city in ancient Egypt, where the priests allegeredly have performed gold transmutation. It was in Arabic because it was the Middle eastern people who took up the study (which was considered highly philosphical and scientific then) after they learnt it from the scrolls in Egypt. For what reason Egyptian alchemy vanished, I don't know.

By then, it was the Golden age of the Islamic World, in the Middle east, and the knowledge thrived along with research and additions done by the Arabian Alchemists.

Until the time came when Europe enters the Renaissance period, and they aquired a lot of knowledge from the Islamic people through trade, Alchemy among them. Thus, the beacon of alchemy passes onto the Western Civilization, where most knowledge of the ancient art of alchemy survives until now (The Islamic civilization crumbled , for reasons i'm not sure of) But heck, it is in the hands of the Western scientists, where alchemy begin it's slow transition into modern chemistry, as for the Fullmetal Alchemist anime, the style of alchemy with transmutation circles never existed, but it might be possible if we understand the workings of matter...

Posted on Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:49 pm

Manwe

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 18

Yamamaya wrote:

haha... you watch too much Full Metal Alchemist.

meh.

Props for citing FMA.

Posted on Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:30 am

SheepKing

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 728

The real props should go to WindGuardian for what he said.

True "alchemy" had nothing to do with Psi. It was indeed spiritual as it involved "Transmuting" (This doesn't have anything to do with Energy either) one "essence" (That is the "spirit of material") into another "essence". The ultimate goal was to change various materials into gold. Ie. Lead.

Alchemy could be considered the archaic form of modern Chemistry, as it was an attempt to manipulate the eliments and change them to something else.

Anime doesn't speak the truth, or history.

Posted on Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:46 pm

sgtpsion

Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 425

Actually, the Arabic term "Al Kimiya" (which sounds remarkably similar to "Alchemy"), which was referred to earlier, means "The Chemist".

So I say it was just Chemistry, with a tad too much spirituality...

If anyone can refute or add to this, go ahead. I like learning from others!

Posted on Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:43 pm

Lightbringer

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 293

Just because the word "Alchemy" has Arabic roots doesn't mean that Alchemy was exclusively practiced in the Middle East. Alchemy has been around for thousands of years in almost every civilization in one form or another. Again, a linguist root does not mean that the actual alchemical practice shared those same roots. I don't doubt the Arabs did some alchemy, but I know they weren't the only ones. For example, Merlin was an alchemist, yet King Arthur and his knights existed as many as 2000 years ago. Somehow I doubt Merlin was visited by Bedouin tribes who wanted to see England and try the fish and chips...

That said, I don't think I can post in this thread anymore. To many people saying "That's, like, when they tried to turn stuff into gold, right?" I honestly don't understand the need to express a totally unimformed and WRONG opinion. Internal alchemy was the focus of alchemicst rather than alchemy involving the elements for hundreds of years. It was only when the knowledge was made secret or lost, that stupid men with dreams of making huge fortunes from lead interpretted metaphors like the Philosopher's Stone as literal.

Posted on Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:29 am

MetaAlchemy

Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 110

Lightbringer wrote:

Alchemy is not just energy manipulation and chemistry. Most alchemy is "internal alchemy" and often requires no ingredients other than a human mind to perform the desired effect. Alchemy involves vibrations (sonic, molecular, etc.), which ancient alchemists asserted could be affected by the human mind as well as crystals, sounds, elixirs, and potions.

Much of it was retarded experiments of old men who had nothing better to do with their time than use their chosen alchemical profession as a way to develop a mystical, holier-than-thou attitude. The practice did stem from some very informed individuals though. The Magi who followed a certain star to see the baby Jesus: alchemists. Jesus, a man who transformed water into wine (kind of like iron into gold eh?): alchemist. The "wizard" Merlin who advised King Arthur: alchemist.

I should also mention that "lead to gold" was less a literal goal as it was a metaphor for changing the vibration of one's matter to be in sync with the Earth's, thus facilitating ascension. Again, this was internal alchemy, rather than some mystical pseudo-chemistry.

Lastly, I'd like to mention that this isn't bs like some ignorant people who have actually never studied alchemy would say. Basing your opinion off of popular misconceptions is only going to keep you from acknowledging the most important mystical field one can pursue. No, I'm not using that phrase lightly, alchemy is actually far more useful than ANY other metaphysical practice.

When you do psionics, you're not focused on materials, you're just using your energy.

What I've done [& would like to do more of] is more materialistic.
Some forms of alchemic 'magick' require no psionic ability to preform, they use the conscious mind and materials instead of higher-senses, thus in some ways it is an easier field.
^
I should write a book about it someday. It's rather ignored...

[edit]

If any of you would like to do some of this, just send me PM & we can talk about it. There are ways to do metaphysical work through materials and conscious logic. =)

Posted on Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:50 pm

cryo

Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 67

i have just started to study alchemy but the only books on it are of plant alchemy which is all about distilling plant oils and making a crystalized form of the plants oils and using them medicinally. these days there are two types of alchemist the ones that try to make gold from lead and the ones that try to use internal alchemy to change themselves. i personally beleive in alchemy and it's ability to transmute metals but i have don't really care i like just the plant alchemy.

Posted on Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:55 am

sparkz

Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 664

Manwe wrote:

Yamamaya wrote:

haha... you watch too much Full Metal Alchemist.

meh.

Props for citing FMA.

haha, i need to get some more DVDs of that show. i've gotten up to volume 3 and then the forth one never arrived in the post Evil or Very Mad

Posted on Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:52 am

thegrogen

Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 91

Personally, I believe that alchemy in the traditional sense of the word is crock. However, I do know that it is possible to change one element into another.

Nuclear fission reactors do that all the time, and in fact that's how they work, as splitting an atom produces energy and two different atom nuclei (and thus different materials).

Fusion also produces new materials, fusing hydrogen into helium (or helium into beryllium, and beryllium into oxygen, as dying stars do). I think that it's technically possible to fuse other elements, but since they are much heavier, it would require even more heat and pressure than for fusing hydrogen, which we are having enough problems doing.

So, therefore, it's probably possible to turn iron into gold through some form of fusion, or turn lead into gold through fission. I think it's just highly improbable.

As for the Elixer of Life, I believe that this in the traditional sense is also crock and bull. However, I was thinking about this whole thing the other day, and I remembered an article I read somewhere (I forget where, it may have been wikipedia) on the subject of gene therapy, which scientists are developing to combat genetic disease and I believe some form of cancer. This process (according to my sources) involves genetically modifying a virus so that instead of harming the cell it is infecting, it modifies a gene within that cell and "fixes" it.

Perhaps a similar technique could be applied to make an "Elixer of Life", tailoring a virus that changes the subject's genes to extend their life. I know from Wikipedia that scientists have been able to extend the life of flatworms by modifying their genes, but this was before their birth, so I don't know if the technique would work on humans who have already been born.

Posted on Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:02 pm

honorable_psion

Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 104

well im srry to burst all of your bubbles (those who think alchemy is a crock) because through the 80's various scientific organizations tested it and were successful. mind you this was not done with hands as it is in full metal alchemist all modern alchemy is is the reverse process of a nuclear explosion instead of splitting and destroying an atom u just change its composition by adding or subtracting protons or neutrons to form a new element. they stopped researching this because it takes soooo much energy and it requires a ton of money to produce this energy.

Posted on Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:29 am

Lightbringer

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 293

No, that's called fusion. And it has hardly been abandoned since the world's first fusion reactor to go critical will be in 2009 when ITER is completed. Btw, ITER fuses tritium and deuterium (hydrogen isotopes) into helium and 2 neutrons, so no, problems fusing hydrogen no longer exist. Do some research before posting guys, honestly.

Grogen: Cool idea. Gene therapy uses retroviruses though, not regular viruses because a virus won't change your DNA, only use your cells for reproduction. Retroviruses infect your DNA (like AIDS) so once you've got it, your cells constantly reproduce the genetic code inserted into your own by the retrovirus. That's why people have AIDS for life once they contract it, because their cells don't die to make virus copies, they just keep spitting out copies until the cell dies.

The problem with creating a gene therapy to cure age is first we need to figure out exactly what causes aging and whether disabling the mechanism is more beneficial than harmful. We know that aging comes from Mitochondrial degradation, they become shriveled and less able to do their job, thus the body very slowly shuts down. But that degradation is because of free radicals created in the process of turning oxygen into energy. So unless there's some more effective "waste disposal method" for the metabolizing of oxygen that can be written into our/mitochondrial DNA, we're pretty much screwed since the only way to stop aging is to disable the mechanism keeping us alive.

Antioxidants seem to be the best way to clean up free radicals and ward off aging. Unfortunately, too much antioxidant is dangerous, only somewhat lessens the damage done rather than stopping it, and must be taken from exterior sources sincewe can't produce it ourselves. Maybe if we could design a new biological system that created and used antioxidants (synthesized from food, water and air maybe) to deal with mitochondrial waste. Then we might be set, but that would require more than just gene therapy, that would be seriously redesigning the human race and would result in changes in diet, metabolism, heart and breathing rates, etc, etc. Basically, homeostasis might not be possible with such a system in place.

Wow, I used a LOT of big words there. Must be tiredness combined with doing all those Mensa puzzles lol.

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