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The Truth about Psi Balls

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The Truth about Psi Balls on Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:08 pm

JOHNNYBEGOOD

Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 354

I actually suggest people try the guide to creating psi balls with the belief it will work. It's a good way of demonstrating how you can use the placebo effect and some basic meditation skills to cause real sensory effects.

Almost anyone who tries this stuff honestly will feel some kind of sensation in the areas the guide describes. I've done some meditation / self deception exercises before and I managed to bruise myself by concentrating on burning balls of energy and such, which wasn't fun .

Posted on Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:29 pm

Scyze

Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 40

Of course, it's different when -other- people feel your effects you are creating. Or you make your computer monitor spazz out.

Posted on Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:09 pm

JOHNNYBEGOOD

Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 354

Scyze wrote:

Of course, it's different when -other- people feel your effects you are creating. Or you make your computer monitor spazz out.

Other people feeling it could be a placebo effect, too. I don't know what to say about the computer screen, but I know that happens when you place a magnet near it.

Posted on Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:32 pm

Septem

Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 9

I'm undecided to whether I think it's a placebo effect or something physical.

If, as reported, other people can feel psi balls, I think it's very unlikely that the other person would somehow pick up the same feelings, particularly if they weren't told what feeling to expect. I haven't had the possibility to try and reproduce that myself yet, having learnt how to do it today, but I'd be interested to see what happens.

Investigation comes before proof.

Or, in other words, don't knock it until you try it.

Posted on Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:55 pm

Peebrain

Site Admin
Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 716

Are the photographs of flared psi balls a placebo affect as well?

Your theory doesn't really account for a lot of the evidence that supports that psi balls exist. While I agree that, as a beginner, it's possible that you might be fooling yourself... that's why we encourage people to test it out somehow. I.e., having someone else feel it, playing pass the construct, putting it over a thermometer.

~Sean

Posted on Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:27 pm

WhiteRaven

Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 343

we've heard all this before, can't anyone think of something original, or at least master the ancient art of clicking the GODDAMNED SEARCH BUTTON! Rolling Eyes

Posted on Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:31 pm

JOHNNYBEGOOD

Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 354

Peebrain wrote:

Are the photographs of flared psi balls a placebo affect as well?

I don't mean to be rude, but they're not very convincing.

Peebrain wrote:

Your theory doesn't really account for a lot of the evidence that supports that psi balls exist. While I agree that, as a beginner, it's possible that you might be fooling yourself... that's why we encourage people to test it out somehow. I.e., having someone else feel it, playing pass the construct, putting it over a thermometer.

~Sean

Hmm... okay. I'll take your word for it. It's just that it's hard to trust something that can only be experience firsthand.

Posted on Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:47 am

SheepKing

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 728

Hello Johnny,

I'd like to call your attention to this post : http://www.psipog.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4384

I discuss a little bit about how you CAN deceive yourself with Psi.

Now truth about Psiballs is... They are real! hehe. The truth about Biofeedback is... Unfortunetly, it does happen to us sometimes.

When you achieve a real psiball you will be able to tell the difference between it and a false sensation. Not to mention you will be able to create distinct sensations in OTHERs aswell.

I have been very careful MANY times to make sure that I do not tell people who I am showing the sensation of psi to what it should feel like. And that I have acheived many a time creating the sensation in a locale and having someone else feeling it. For example: I create a small sphere in between my hands. I remove my hands and ask teh person to pass their hand through a location... Lo and behold, they feel the sensation in that area.

While I understand your doubt, It is merely form lack of experience.

Posted on Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:30 pm

jdsama

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2

SheepKing wrote:

When you achieve a real psiball you will be able to tell the difference between it and a false sensation.

I find this a little hard to accept , the fundamental source of all our perceptions (whether they be about psiballs or the computer monitor in front of us) are created by the brain . Self deception , meditation and the induction of trance like states all work through the placebo effect to cause the brain to create sensations which are not compliant with the signals from our sensory organs , there is no obvious limiting factor in this regard that I'm aware of. Thusly even if we were to assume that one can actually create a psiball I fail to see why one could not trick oneself through these techniques into believing they were having the exact same sensation , as the fact of the matter is that all sensation is simply a brain determined abstraction anyway.
I'm willing to keep an open mind on these subjects which is why when I read about exercises and communities such as this one I invest some time in carrying them out in earnest. However It's hard not to harbour a degree of skepticism on these matters when the results and methods of achieving those results are so strikingly similar to the kind of thing we see in placebo experiments.
After all we are only looking for the most realistic explanation for a series of observations , none of us here can be certain our experiences relate to psionic power (nor can those skeptics among us be certain they do not) . Considering for the moment only the personal experience relating to psiballs we see very much the same thing in placebo and conditioning based experiments firm belief in the falsity of existant effects or the validity of non-existant effects , I find it hard to understand how a sensation or belief could be transcendent of this, and thus when faced with a choice between a vague loosely documented cause (which with current understanding roughly equates to magic) or a well documented scientifically established cause I think one can appreciate why there are so many skeptics.

Quote:

Not to mention you will be able to create distinct sensations in OTHERs aswell.

I have been very careful MANY times to make sure that I do not tell people who I am showing the sensation of psi to what it should feel like. And that I have acheived many a time creating the sensation in a locale and having someone else feeling it. For example: I create a small sphere in between my hands. I remove my hands and ask teh person to pass their hand through a location... Lo and behold, they feel the sensation in that area.

The thing about this and the large number of similar testimonies is that the tests (I'm willing to assume honesty in your account) are simply not scientifically rigorous . To posit a simple possible explanation of your example using fairly commonly accepted effects. Both the sender and receiver in this experiment likely want the experiment to succeed even borderline skeptics will often fall into this category , I'm happy to admit I would much prefer a world of psiballs precognition and telekinesis than the boring old laws of physics we appear to be stuck with (well their not boring but..). Furthermore the receiver is actively searching for the effect which itself is mostly ambiguous and certainly unknown to the receiver leading to the type of hypersensitivity you describe. This leaves the receiver as a prime candidate for placebo like effects , they have entered into an artificially altered understanding of their environment by their own preconceptions and hopes regarding the situation.
Now much more importantly how does the receiver find the ball within the space . Well to reitterate I am only positing a possible explanation but it is well known that all psychologically healthy individuals emit certain forms of subconscious tells in these types of situations , when we are aware and concentrating on a particular spot we see as special we might casually pause our glance upon it for a millisecond or react in ways as minor as a slight flushing of the cheeks when the spot is interacted with . The effect is much the same as that we see when idividuals are shielding a lie they have told. Now the receiver is already hypersensitive as he searches for the psiball , the slightest abnormal stimulation could trigger a positive feedback reaction from increasing belief that the phenomena he has detected is in fact a psiball. I don't think it is particularly unreasonable to suggest that such a trigger might be found in the receiver unconsciously picking up on a tell from the sender.

The thing is we can't really tell which one of these explanations is valid (or even simply more believable) without exposing the phenomena to more controlled testing. The worrying thing is that often I find the methods of controlling these experiments are then reasoned to be blocking the psionic effect , which is obviously bad science as even if the effects described on this site are genuine it seems noone has any evidence to suggest why the occur and thus why they would be blocked beyond base intuition. When controlling factors which could block non-psionic causes of these phenomena are held up as psionic blocks ... well it starts to look shaky in the eyes of a skeptic . A good example is another thread I noticed in this forum regarding telekinesis effecting a pinwheel but seemingly being halted by the addition of a glass case(an obvious addition for any controlled experiments as air currents will inevitably develop in any human occupied room) , from experimental evidence one might suggest that the glass case is a psionic block , of course the only evidence for this is that the pinwheel doesn't spin when in the glass case, there is however an alternative explanation that the spinning when outside the glass case is caused by air currents or similar.

This is were the vast majority of skeptics are coming from IMO even if one believes most of what is posted in this site is posted in honesty, there are most often alternative explanations which fit much better with the complete set of observations and you can't really blame a guy coming to such conclusions.

Posted on Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:47 pm

SheepKing

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 728

I am not going to directly quote you on anything, simply because most of your explaination would require me to quote all if not most of what you have said for each segment.

I have a basic understanding of the way the human mind can fool the senses. It is very easy to do so, and I am not denying that when one practices Psionics this CAN and WILL happen from time to time.

I'll tell you know that I have some basic knowledge of the scientific method, but nothing above very basic understanding. Except for some of the more math related stuff dealing with chemistry/physics.

So basically, because I haven't applied the "Scientific Method" I have no proof that what I am doing is considered Psi? Razz

I find that a foolish notion, simply because that my experiences and my observations, whether applied through the scientific method or not, tell me that Psi exists. I have moved a pen with Psychokinesis, held accurate precognitions of events going on in others lives (Where as an event was already planned to happen, and I detected it and described it going on), Had many experiences with telepathy both online and offline. I have created psiballs that other people could feel both online and offline.

But, I have also failed at these things before, aswell. In the case of Psiballs when I thought I was creating something, which turned out to be sensory illusions, I had another person feel for what I was doing... And they felt nothing.

The problem with Psi based phenomena is it is hard to test out with the scientific method. Not because it doesn't exist, or most people lie about it, but because the largest portion of being able to use this ability lies with that of an invidual. There is a large psychological factor that lies with being able to perform these feats. If one is afraid and can't concetrate, he can't perform well. Or, one may misinterpret the sensations that are given to him in the case of telepathy/precognition, or even sensing energy.

I doubt you will find any of this as compelling evidence. I doubt no matter how much of my experiences I have shared with you, or anyone else, ( which amounts to several years of experience ) any of you would be "convinced". That is the fact of things.

I'd just like to throw out there that even when it comes to relativley understood things in life, and nature, the scientific community STILL has mixed feelings. (I recently read an article questioning the way the water molecules actually bond with one another). This is life though Smile

.

As for now, It is not my duty to "prove psi". Only to practice it and get better. Perhaps one day I will attempt to share my experiences, first hand, with the "larger" communities that have the capability of running fair, accurate, and scientific tests.

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