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| Your ethical standpoint on Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:25 pm | |||||||||||
JoeT
Joined: 27 Nov 2005 |
Hello everyone,
I would like to hear everyone's opinion on ethics and telepathic suggestion. I myself have been an practitioner on telepathic suggestion for many years. Over the years, my ethical stance has changed over the course of time. I would like to hear where your stance is on mentally suggesting another to perform a certain task. Please be mature about this subject. I want to hear what you'll find appropriate for suggesting another and what you will not feel ethically right. If you're lucky, you guys might be in for a treat. - JoeT |
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| Posted on Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:40 pm | |||||||||||
bladeslinger
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 |
I think that you can use it on people every once in a while or when people just won't cooperate.(I said this because I'm currently with my little cousin who will never cooperate.) I've heard people that want to use TPS to mess with people for fun which I think is wrong....I mostly discourage it. | ||||||||||
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| Posted on Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:24 pm | |||||||||||
PazarX
Joined: 12 Mar 2006 |
i think it's ok to use on people as long as you don't do make them do anything they might be morally against. getting them to get you a soda is always nice but like.... getting them to jump around and make loud noises in a movie theatre is well... not nice. 
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| Posted on Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:14 pm | |||||||||||
Mad_Hatter
Joined: 19 Feb 2006 |
I think telepathic suggestion can be used for harmless things like moving through crowds easily; making a room quieter that should be quiet, like a library. Small things like that are fine. The line is drawn at making people do things that you wouldn't want somebody else making you do. If you don't think that you would like being subconsciously made to go to the bathroom so that another person could get ahead in line, then don't act on it. | ||||||||||
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| Posted on Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:51 pm | |||||||||||
Peebrain
Site Admin |
I wouldn't want anyone to force me to do anything. I am a conscious being, and I have an inherent right to make decisions for myself. If I choose to be loud in a library, then that is my decision. If you want me to be quiet... then ask me. ~Sean |
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| Posted on Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:54 pm | |||||||||||
Vedran
Joined: 17 Jul 2006 |
In my personal opinion, I take the same stance with this as I do with lying. Little things are okay, but anything harmful would be considered bad (by me at least). Telepathically telling someone to "move" if they're in the way is fine, similar to lying about say, your weight. When the bar starts getting raised though, aka making someone feel angry (telepathically) or even sad, that's when I think that it's morally incorrect, at least in my opinion.
Now where's my treat Joe! ( Just kiddin'  )
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| Posted on Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:00 am | |||||||||||
ratlord
Joined: 14 Jan 2006 |
I think it's fine to use telepathic suggestion. Like if your dog wont stop barking or isn't behaving, suggest him to behave. Also if you're feeling lazy or sore you can suggest someone to get up and give you the remote for the TV. As long as you don't use it against someone in a way that could hurt them I think it's a good, fun, and useful skill to practice. | ||||||||||
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| Posted on Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:40 am | |||||||||||
maxus
Joined: 13 Jun 2006 |
I would have thought that Telepathic Suggestion would eliminate free will of the subject, even though youre not controlling them, youre influencing them to do things, and isnt that as good as a loss of free will? | ||||||||||
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| Posted on Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:11 am | |||||||||||
Roy
Joined: 27 Nov 2005 |
I would be against anything or anyone that would seek to impair or influence my cognition and my perception. We all have an intrinsic right to privacy and volition: anything that would subvert it cannot be morally right. Although some may be well intentioned in using such a skill at first, most people will agree that the line between moral and immoral can constantly be pushed and pulled in one direction or the other. The human condition is prone to corruption. | ||||||||||
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| Posted on Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:16 am | |||||||||||
Elliptic
Joined: 19 Jan 2006 |
The act of telepathic suggestion is, in most cases, de facto immoral because it infringes on the sentience of other rational beings. By altering the thoughts of a sentient being, you essentially remove their own rationality, which falls into the same ethical category as rape and murder (these things ultimately being "wrong" because they impune 'free will' or sentient rationality).
In some cases, Suggestion is acceptable - for example, in self defense, or in cases where it would be more harmful not to do it. It is always fallacious to necessarily declare an act immoral - but the grounds in which an act is committed is certainly a factor, and I can think of very few cases where such an act is morally justifiable. In the past, (long before I met Adam, for those wondering), I referred to telepathic suggestion on an extreme scale as "mindrape." It is essentially that - to telepathically alter someone's actions or opinions is ultimately to rape them - to steal that very thing which makes them a sentient being. In most cases, it is morally equivalent to murder. |
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| Posted on Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:01 am | |||||||||||
Raitaro
Joined: 18 Jul 2006 |
The basic code I live by is I dont force people to do things I wouldnt do but if somthing isnt within my means and I would do it if I could then I dont see anything wrong with it. | ||||||||||
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| Posted on Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:28 am | |||||||||||
Elliptic
Joined: 19 Jan 2006 |
There's a flaw to this code: if you would do it, but I wouldn't, then you are using me solely as a means to accomplishing your ends. For example, if you wanted to telepathically suggest someone to do something, and you couldn't, then you might telepathically suggest someone who could to do it. Pretend you did that to me (and yes, I recognize that this is a somewhat silly example). Now I am being forced to do something that I would never do, but you would. I am being used solely as a means to accomplish your end - and worse, you have forced me to compromise my ethical principles which I feel very strongly about. This is morally unacceptable. |
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| Posted on Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:26 am | |||||||||||
JoeT
Joined: 27 Nov 2005 |
Hello Elliptic,
Your conservative views on the subject are certainly well noted. However, you can't judge someone?s actions (Which still shows no evidence to his accusations, you know who I'm talking about) as another?s. That?s flat out stereotypical. I understand that you have strong feelings on this subject due to accusations (which I believe never occurred) made towards another for using it immaturely on you. However please keep in mind that one's actions are not another?s. People think differently. This ability can be used for negative reasons, that's obvious. However, you cannot stand there and tell me that this ability stands out above the rest when it comes to people using this ability immaturely. We've both seen our fair share of negative experiences using other psionics abilities. Constructs can be programmed to perform certain negative tasks, linking to another can easily considered an attack, scanning, empathic sending/receiving can easily be stereotyped as controlling and an invasion of privacy. Hell, this damn water bottle next to me can be used negatively. I understand that the main aspect of this subject is to alter someone's free will however, mature practitioners have to knowledge and common sense not to use this ability immaturely. Meaning, they wouldn't use this ability to suggest another do perform a certain task that they find morally wrong. This ability can be used negatively, I know that. However, I firmly believe that members would have to common sense not to use this ability childishly. Let's not forget the name of this ability; Telepathic suggestion. This ability does not control or in your words "mind rape" another. If someone suggests that you jump of a bridge, will you do it? I would hope not. The receivers will follow what they know is right. Through my years of teaching/practicing telepathic suggestion, I have never heard nor seen any success in making another perform a certain task that they wouldn't normally perform. - JoeT |
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| Posted on Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:30 pm | |||||||||||
Elliptic
Joined: 19 Jan 2006 |
Adam's alleged activities are not the sole basis for my reasoning here. I do have strong feelings on the subject, but it is not solely because of what Adam may or may not have done. Yes, people think differently, but the justification for an immoral action does not change the immorality of the act itself. Murderers kill for different reasons, and rapists rape, but this does not make the act of murder or rape acceptable.
Sure, and the potential for negative use is not an issue here. I own a gun and a variety of other weapons, and I train in killing arts. I am certainly not one to restrict the learning of an act because of its relative negativity. What I wonder about is the use of such acts, and the justification thereof. I don't believe you can give me a viable justification where the use of telepathic suggestion does not use another person as a means only, or compromise their rationality. If you can, then we can consider the act acceptable within those limitations.
The morality of the act being suggested is not the issue here. You could Suggest someone to invent Cold Fusion, and succeed, and the act would still be immoral. You could Suggest a child abuser to reform, or a genocidal dictator to step down, and the act would still be immoral. The act itself compromises the rationality of the victim.
It's a nice semantic buzzword, but it doesn't work that way. Properly done, telepathic suggestion convinces the victim that it is their own thought and their own desire - and that they fully intend to perform the act. Done skillfully, it is quite possible to type through another's fingers, or cause them to kill themselves, or any number of other consequences. There is no line and merely a slippery slope between getting someone to scratch their nose and getting someone to wreck their automobile.
Funny. I have. So has Adam. "lmao" |
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| Posted on Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:58 pm | |||||||||||
JoeT
Joined: 27 Nov 2005 |
Hello Elliptic,
Yes, that's understandable and noted. However, it's not an immoral action. This depends on how you view the subject itself that makes it immoral. Some may agree with you, others may not. It truly depends on how you personally view what is right and what isn't. I don't agree with your example. Murder and Telepathic suggestion are totally different. You're not killing people with telepathic suggestion nor has that thought passed other members heads until now. However, can you suggest someone to kill themselves? Yes, absolutely. However, you can also do that by whispering in someones ear, making their lives a living hell, verbally tell then to do so etc. Communication is the act of exchanging thoughts, messages, or information, as by speech, signals, writing, or behavior. That applies to telepathic suggestion and other forms of communication. Meaning, you can do harm simply by verbally stating "Do it". Like I've stated, it truly depends on how you believe you should use this ability rather than how it can be used. I can easily pick up a baseball and throw it at someone killing them. Why don't I do it? Because I know it's wrong.
I can personally state examples of how I've used telepathic suggestion in a positive way. I'm sure others can as well. Just the other night, I used telepathic suggestion to stop sneaking out of the house at night therefore keeping him out of trouble and out of harm. Another example I can give is when my good friend Paul decided to hang out with the wrong crowd of people and started doing drugs (marijuana to be specific). With the help of telepathic suggestion and helpful preaches, he stopped hanging out with those guys and stopped doing drugs. Those two example were done recently. Within the month. I can share with you hundreds of times I've personally used TPS for beneficial aspects towards another person. Like I've stated, can telepathic suggestion be used for negative reasons? Absolutely. However, it can also be used for positive, beneficial reasons. Anything can be a threat, it depends on the handler whether to make it a threat or not. That goes for everything.
I absolutely disagree. If I'm using telepathic suggestion on someone to change a certain aspect of their thinking or actions, I think about how this will effect them long-term wise. Meaning, if I know this is going to benefit themselves and others, I'll absolutely perform telepathic suggestion. Why wouldn't I? I believe it's morally wrong not to do so if you know it's beneficial for that person. Telepathic suggestion is no different than suggesting someone verbally. Like I've stated, you're not controlling this person and telepathic suggestion is absolutely not a mind control ability. Anyone can per sway someone by repeatedly asking/suggestion them verbally. Is that immoral? Is it ethically wrong to talk to someone out of doing something stupid or negative? No. Telepathic suggestion is an ability that can be used for beneficial aspects for both the sender and the receiver. I don't believe using this ability is ethically wrong if you're using it for the right reasons.
Yes, that's true. However, like you said that depends on ones skill and moral stance with the subject. I have personally used this ability for personal gain in the past, however who doesn't use a form of persuasion for personal gain? Whether you ask repeatedly, use peer pressure, use emotions such as crying, guilt etc, you're still using it for personal gain. We're all guilty of this act. However, it depends fully on the handler. If the sender is respectable and has positive ethical stances, they will not use this ability for negative reasons. You're describing telepathic suggestion as an ability that literally forces another to perform a certain task whether positively or not. That's incorrect. Like I've stated, if you suggest another to perform a task that they are not capable of doing both mentally or physically, then you'll have little success. Is it possible? Yes. But other forms of communication can make "crazy" possible. We all know that.
When I stated "perform a certain task that they wouldn't normally perform.", I was referring to an action that they wouldn't be able to both mentally or physically. For example, I've used telepathic suggestion to make another drop their pens or pencils, would they normally do that? No, but they're capable of doing so. Trying to make another jump off a bridge, killing themselves is both highly unlikely and morally wrong. I know what Adam has done in the past. I've personally worked with Adam (as did you). I was taught telepathic suggestion (as well as other psionic related abilities) by Adam. I was personally shown the ropes, practiced with and overall made me a better sender by Adam. I know what his capabilities were and what they weren't. All this propaganda has shown no evidence to support ANY claim that he used this on his friends or others making them perform a certain act that they wouldn't normally do. I hate debating with a friend but we both have very different views on the beneficial aspects of telepathic suggestion. For the sake of corrupting other members heads with these negative uses, let's finish this conversation in pm. I don't want our members picking up ideas, that was not my goal nor did I intend to speak of negative matters that have been shared. - JoeT |
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