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Ethics of psionics

Poll: Ethical or Unethical?

Ethical

86%

[ 25 ]

Unethical

13%

[ 4 ]

Total Votes : 29

Author

Message

Ethics of psionics on Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:30 am

voicingmaster

Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 4

Is it considered unethical to use micro-PK to manipulate games of chance (like manipulating dice/dials)?

Posted on Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:42 am

mark555

Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 18

If your talking about doing something like that in a casino then i think its fine.
When you play a game there you have to use your mind to work out how you can win or the best tactics etc.
PK would still mean you were just using your brain to win the game!

Posted on Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:11 am

neveza

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 1147

What is ethics? You have your own morals, do what you feel right. We aren't your mothers or preachers.

Although, I don't see the harm of beating a system with ESP, unless you go to the casino and do contant wins then meeted by the local casino mafia and loose some knee caps.

Unethical on Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:46 pm

Wraith777

Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 52

The point of the game is for it to be a game of chance, where everyone has an equal chance to win. If you're influencing the odds in any way whatsoever (even from the casino owner's side), it's breaking the rules, and thus unethical.

Re: Unethical on Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:06 pm

neveza

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 1147

Wraith777 wrote:

maybe for you, not for I. Gambleing is all about chance right? You're dealing with the chance of coming across someone with ESP or ability to manipulate Micro-PK. However, some people might even tap in it without realisation.

Posted on Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:03 pm

BenDrummin58

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 18

What about using micro-pk on taking exams? Would that be cheating? Smile

Posted on Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:07 pm

neveza

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 1147

BenDrummin58 wrote:

What about using micro-pk on taking exams? Would that be cheating? Smile

No, as Exams are not really random or caused by probability.

Posted on Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:14 pm

Ivan

Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 15

It is unethical, imo. They are games of chance and are advertized as games of chance. By agreeing to play them you agree to play the game as a game of chance. How would you feel if you discovered some one you were playing a game of dice with, was using weighted dice? You would be upset because they stole your money. They did so by not playing the game as a game of chance when you were (playing it as a game of chance).

Everyone has their own set of ethics. It would be pointless to discuss who is right or wrong. The bottem line is that the majority set the standerd list. Taking the element of chance out of a game of chance is illegal. If a court were to agree you actually had the ability to influance the outcome you would be treated no differently than some one who counted cards or weighted dice.

Sorta makes it a double edge Smile

. On the one hand you'd like the ability to be accepted as real. While on the other you take advantage of others disbelief so that you could use it to cheat. Razz

Posted on Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:14 pm

Lizndax

Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 120

I don't see the problem in at least trying to influence the lottery draw or slots. At least in those it's not about skill and you're not exactly playing against any other person.

Posted on Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:50 pm

Roy

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 416

To say that it is unethical to use psionics to alter games of chance is, in my opinion, shortsighted. We also have to make a distinction between pure games of chance, such as roulette or lottery-like games, and games of skill that involve a great deal of chance, such as poker.

In games of pure chance, why not use psionic abilities to win? How exactly is it unfair? You're not breaking any rules or laws, except those of probability. If you're playing against a casino, then the odds are already stacked against you since all games where you play against the house are designed so that the house has a greater chance of winning. It's one of the guidelines used when casino's create new games for their patrons to play. Why not even up the odds?

Some of you may say, "well it's easy to consider the casino as some big, faceless, and nameless entity and therefore you can easily excuse using psionics to win money from them, but what about the employee and their paychecks and their families?" Good point, but consider this: deciding what is and what isn't ethical insofar as using psionics is a slippery slope. Where do you draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable. Maybe using psychokinesis at the roulette table is bad, then what about someone who is precognitive, and sees a probable future where he or she will win a lot of money at the casino, and therefore they go gamble and win? Is that still unethical? Ok, if you say it is, what about the opposite? Say the same person had planned to go gambling, but then sees a probable future where they lose all their money, and therefore they decide not to go. They're still benefitting because they haven't lost their money, and essentially the casino loses out because they didn't get a chance to take the precogs money. Is that still unfair? Where does it end? Where do you draw the line?

Let's talk about games of chance AND skill, like poker. You're not playing against the casino this time, so the odds are even between all players. Everyone can get the same great hands and the same horrible hands. However, there are certain strategies that come into play whereby you dont have to depend on chance to win or lose, such as bluffing, or reading your opponent to see if he he/she has a good hand or horrible hand. The skill aspect is all geared toward minimizing risk and increasing your chances of winning. Certainly now we can bring abilities like empathy, and telepathy into play.

Is it unethical to use telepathy to try and determine the cards your opponent is holding? No, because that same opponent is looking you up and down for any tells or non-verbal communication that would give away what you yourself hold in your hand. And you cannot say that it is unfair because the telepath has an amazing ability that most people don't have. While this is true, there certainly is an abundance of literature online about telepathy so that the aspiring poker player can easily locate resources and how-to guides (like at psipog.net).

Posted on Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:12 pm

Kow

Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 167

I have to agree 100% with Roy right there.

Posted on Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:04 pm

Ivan

Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 15

Is it ethical to use "enhancments" to compete athletically? I'm not making a point, only asking the question. Some would say it's ethical and some would say it isn't.

The same people would have a similar opinion about using tk, or whatever. The purpose of gambling is to the element of chance. Remove it and you aren't gambling anymore (look it up in the dictionary). Weather it's a contest of strength or stratagy, the rules of the game are set up before the game. If some one were to use tp to determine weather or not they had a winning hand they would be making choices based on exact knowledge. Players can use fake tells to through off opponents. More than that, the tell they are reading is based on their opponents beleif in what his cards mean. They have no actual knowledge of what the cards in the other players hands are. The point is playing from the point of being able to be wrong. Gambling is risk, you would make vastly different choices if you knew what your opponents actually had.

This question is slightly different than the other issue you pose. Is a seen future "supposed" to happen or can/should you alter it? That's a different debate.

There is no slope really, only were you choose to draw your line in relation to where those around you draw theirs. Some are more extreme than others. Personally, I don't usually do things the easy way. I perfer the challange of dealing from uncertainty. I don't use video game cheats and the like. When I win, I personally want to know I did it without taking the easy way.

Let me put it this way. I dare you to prove to a casino that you used TK ot TP. If you aren't banned I'll be very surprised. It's not about what I think is ethical, it's about what the people you choose to play with think is ethical. Laughing

Posted on Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:40 pm

Apollo

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1589

ethics is what makes you feel good. Winning money makes you feel good. Therefore it is ethical.

^^ my philosophy! Cool

Posted on Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:45 am

voicingmaster

Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 4

BenDrummin58 wrote:

What about using micro-pk on taking exams? Would that be cheating? Smile

How would that even work? I mean, PK involves moving stuff, how would moving something with my mind aid in an exam?

Posted on Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:58 am

Lightbringer

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 293

There are no ethics, only what you choose to do and the consequences of that choice.

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