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Personal article on Inner-Freedom
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Posted on Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:41 am

DemonHunter

Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 100

i agree with you MartialArtist and great article you wrote!!

I believe suffering is not necessary and it is not comfortable. Therefore one should try not to do so. But suffering is good in a way, because it shows you that you havent figured out something that you should figure out about yourself.
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Posted on Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:22 pm

MartialArtist

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 582

Thank you,

Yes I agree.

EDIT: About the quote, remember there is no right or wrong answer to it, just interpretation. So share your intepretations please, I am curious.
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Posted on Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:22 pm

Rahmid

Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 739

Does "men" in the quote mean all people in the world. Or a man?

Rahmid
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Posted on Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:04 am

MartialArtist

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 582

Men stands for humanity as a whole. Everyone.

hint: I put this quote in this topic not for no reason. It has alot to do with my article. If you want to fully understand the quote, my article (the first post) might help. =)
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Posted on Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:09 pm

MartialArtist

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 582

"Men would like to be selfish but somehow he can't; this defines his suffering as well as the source of his greatness."

Come'on Mad

Wink What say you Netrage?
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Posted on Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:47 pm

MGauntz

Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 1

Well, I almost never post here. Ever really. But MA, your posts are always really well written and make me think.

I think the idea that you have is quite good. If people realize that their lack of accepting that they can 'fail' is actually making them worse then it eventually becomes much easier to better themselves. Once they are content and happy then it is that much easier to focus on what the 'problem' may be. Its not settling for worse, its accepting that it is fine to not accomplish everything you want to and being happy that way as well as if you can accomplish the goal.

About the quote...
I think it means that people often stuggle to be something, and often fail. It is the cause of his problems but yet, the determination and asperations also make him great.
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Posted on Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:28 pm

Rahmid

Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 739

MartialArtist wrote:
"Men would like to be selfish but somehow he can't; this defines his suffering as well as the source of his greatness."


Sorry, came up with an answer a while ago, but I've been away.

OK, my answer.

People are naturally compassionate, though some people can come pretty damn close to being totally selfish (many people come to mind...) there is always a little something feuling them to have empathy. This is a greatness because men find it impossible to not be compassionate. Not so sure why it's his suffering but I'll take a random stab. It is a failing that man cannot always get what they focus on. You should be able to change your personality to what ever you want right? I tried...Whatever. lol

Rahmid
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Posted on Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:25 am

MartialArtist

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 582

Thanks for your kind words MGauntz.

An thank you both for your input/intepretation. Nice interpretations Smile.

I will share what I understood about the quote:

"Men would like to be selfish but somehow he can't; this defines his suffering as well as the source of his greatness."

Men (humanity) would like to be selfish... This is pretty much self-explanatory. People want to be selfish, right? They want to gather stuff for themselves, they want attention for themselves, they want... they want... they want...etc. So this first part everyone can understand.

Then the quote sais:
but somehow he can't... This probably means that while we want to be selfish, we can hardly ever be truely selfish because our conscience get in our way. This counts for most people: they would never do something that is completely selfish, because they would feel bad about it. This last sentence automatically explains the next part of the quote, which sais:

this defines his suffering... As I explained in my article, suffering is created when we cannot accept somehting we would like to do, or are doing at the moment. When we cannot accept ourselves and our deeds, we suffer. So in this quote, men wants to be selfish, but somehow he can't, because his conscience gets in the way and he feels bad about this, thus: he suffers Smile.

as well as the source of his greatness... So this part of him that cannot accept selfish behaviour, is the source of his suffering, as well as the source of his greatness, because out of this inacceptance, comes the ability to do good, to share, and to help other people. Hence: the greatness.

That's my interpretation. I thought it was a nice quote. Quotes are always nice to decipher. Many quotes seem to get more dpeth everytime you read them, simply because you understand more of what is behind it. If you read a quote now, you will interpretate it differntly than when you read it in 2 years from now. So the interpretation always tells me something about myself. That's what I like about it.

MA
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Posted on Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:59 am

DemonHunter

Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 100

I believe a problem is that people are too uneasy with their goals or their desires. Apart of that they're too uneasy in general. Not all of them of course, but it seems to be a general problem. As well as identifying with the desires, which is in my opinion one of the greatest problems. You do that most of the time i think unconsciously. Therefore if you don't achieve the goal or desire you had, you feel bad, because you connected it to yourself. But you won't feel so good if you achieve the desire or at least not for a long time. I believe feeling good or being happy should not be sticked to certain situations or things. If you do that you don't allow yourself to be happy in situatioins that are not like the situations that you want for being happy. Of course that shouldn't prevent you from being happy when those certain things happen or those special situations apply.

Another thing which is important i think is being able to laugh at yourself or others. Taking things too seriously or taking them seriously in a way at all makes a lot of damage on everything and yourself. The problem is there that if you act like this in public maybe people might feel offended by your freedom because they aren't that free or they might misinterpret it.
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Posted on Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:50 am

MartialArtist

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 582

very wise post DemonHunter Smile

I agree
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Posted on Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:37 pm

somefatguy

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1187

Heh, I didn't make it in time. I've been busy as well...but my answer is around the bounds of MA's and Rahmid's.

Who is "Netrage"?
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Posted on Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:11 pm

MartialArtist

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 582

Netrage is a very good friend of mine from India. He has alot of experience with meditation and the like. i will vouch for most things he say. We have different views on not so many things, but we do have them. So I won't say I vouch for everything he sais;) but in most cases our views are very similar, just in a different perspective.

I will say that you can very well rely on his knowledge and wisdom I assure you. He is a very loving soul with alot of experience and is well connected to his source. Words flow through him like a channeled waterfall.
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Posted on Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:12 am

Gekido

Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 44

I just read your post, thank you for taking the time to make such a thoughtful response to my concerns.

I agree with most of your post now that you've explained it to me, but now I have two more concerns.

"Because really, if you would not care whether or not you would fail your desire, then would you still suffer if you'd 'fail'? No. That is to me, enough proof to conculde that it is not the situation that makes us unhappy; it is the way we think and therefore feel about what happened. (because emotion is always an effect of our thoughts)."

- If you would not care whether or not you would fail to satisfy your desire, wouldn't it then cease to be a desire? To desire something leads me to believe that you have to care that you fulfill it. Also, if you desire something and you are denied it, I can't imagine not suffering from that. Maybe with self acceptance you can overcome the suffering, but from my viewpoint I just can't understand it. (I think you've explained this a few times but I just don't get it, heh.)

- What is your view on suffering? Do you think it a negative or positive element in our lives? This may not be entirely related to the conversation, but I'm just curious as to what you think. I believe that although suffering itself is bad, it is inherent in our nature and most times brings us knowledge if we allow it to. I'd like to hear your response, since it might help me understand.

Sorry for the late response, and that this isn't fleshed out all too much. I'll probably read my post over in a week and hang my head, haha. Thanks again for the response. :]
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Posted on Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:23 am

MartialArtist

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 582

Quote:
- If you would not care whether or not you would fail to satisfy your desire, wouldn't it then cease to be a desire? To desire something leads me to believe that you have to care that you fulfill it. Also, if you desire something and you are denied it, I can't imagine not suffering from that. Maybe with self acceptance you can overcome the suffering, but from my viewpoint I just can't understand it. (I think you've explained this a few times but I just don't get it, heh.)


Quote:
If you would not care whether or not you would fail to satisfy your desire, wouldn't it then cease to be a desire?


Exactly! Ceasing of desires equals inner-freedom Smile.
Although you can have desires and be non-attached to them, they would then be more like intentions, rather than desires. You are no longer dependent on the outcome of your personal desires, you just have an intention, and you can dispasionately choose whether or not you are going to express that intention.

Quote:

- What is your view on suffering? Do you think it a negative or positive element in our lives? This may not be entirely related to the conversation, but I'm just curious as to what you think. I believe that although suffering itself is bad, it is inherent in our nature and most times brings us knowledge if we allow it to. I'd like to hear your response, since it might help me understand.


I don't think so much in negative or positive, and most certainly not in good and bad. These are to me, illusions. Something can never be good or bad, thats just the labelling of the mind to a certain situations.

I think suffering is very helpful though. Without it, we would not seacrh for something deeper, something that could possibly set us free. It is thanks to suffering that we eveolve towards enlightenment. If this illusional realm would be beautiful and suffering would not exist, then how would we ever know this realm is in fact illusionary? It is thanks to pain that we keep searching. So it is not good or bad, but it is helpful and with most souls absolutely necessary.
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nice on Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:24 pm

EndOfAllHopes

Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 18

Great post!

Here is a link to a "course" of 30 lessons that IMO share quite a lot with your point of view in the article, anyway it is more specific and detailed(30 pages...)

If anyone find the time to read it or part of it tell what you think about it!
(start from lesson 1 of course!)

http://www.trans4mind.com/positive/
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