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Call Lightning
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Posted on Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:06 am

MartialArtist

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 582

Great post Eldibs, appreciate it. I'll try to make myself more clear now cause I did not take your notes into my explanation while I could have, now that you mention them, I shall try to explain what I think about that and how that does not disprove anything I said:

Eldibs said:
Quote:
One reason is that everything has its limits. This is not a theory up for debate, this is a fact. Steel will break after a certain amount of force is applied, and will melt after gaining a certain amount of heat. A given amount of copper can only transfer a certain amount of energy before it overheats and melts. The human body is no different, neither is the human mind. If your arm is hit hard enough with a monkey wrench, it will break, and if your mind deals with too much stress, you will have a mental breakdown. If you are trying to transfer too much energy psionically, it can hurt you. Now, granted, everybody's limits are different. It would take a different amount of force to break my arm than it would to break MA's, and our minds both have a different amount of resistance to mental breakdown. Similarly, differences in genetics, body chemistry, etc... means that MA and I would have different limits to the amount of psi we could handle without getting hurt.


Yes there are limits. The physical realm has more limits than for example the realm of Ether would you agree? In the physical world bones can only take so much force before they break. In the subtler world of energies like Electro magnetic energies, Ether, sound waves etc... things cannot break. Sure there are limits in that realm too in a certain sense, though because of teh fact that at the subtler levels of reality the energy is not as dense as it is on the physical the limits are also much more flexible and borders along with limits are hard to tell. Ether is not the subtlest level yet. There are many levels like this, many levels of subtlety and many different velocities with which energy vibrates. The higher the vibration,, the more subtler the energy and therefore the less borders and limits that specific realm of energy has. Less laws as well.

So even though there seem to be many limits on the physical level, there are far less limits on the subtler levels and those subtler levels are the goal of the psion. It is in those levels that our consciousness must penetrate in order to command those realms. Lightning is subtler than my bones. The energies that are present prior to creating the concetrated beam of electrical energy we call lightning, are even more subtle.

Note: also I believe and I have seen from experience that the subtler of levels we master, the more we can bend the rules and limits of the physical world. For example if I am to master the most subtle levels of my body, you could not possibly break my arm if I didn't want you too. no matter how hard you try and how many bulldozers you throw at me. That is why in the end everything is possible.

Now on to your next important note which I am glad you mentioned, for I wanted to include my answer earlier on in my posts but i decided not to. I will do so now:

Eldibs said:
Quote:
Another reason is personal experience. Now, if I meditate and/or go into a trance, I can hold my mind clear long enough to focus on a goal (and by clear, I mean there is NOTHING going on. When I clear my mind, I go all the way. No doubts, no fears, no beliefs, nothing. So shut up about how I was "doubting myself," because I wasn't. It's actually useful for controlling nervousness), and to attempt to achieve that goal. Now, having an IQ of higher than your average fork, I can also formulate a goal, which would be my intent. Applying my freshly cleared mind (A is at 1), and my goal (I is at 1), I should be able to achieve that goal (P should be at 100%). However, I cannot. If I were to meditate right now, then try to make a green psi ball, I would be unable to. And I'll wager that if those of you reading this that cannot already make a flared psi ball were to try it right now, with perfect Attention and Intent, it would not work. It's not that I don't believe in you, or that I think you're a psionic version of a wimp, it's the cold, hard truth.


Yes so basiacally you are saying: A*I when both 100% still has no significant results. That is because your A and I were not at 100%. Your I probably was at 0,001 % but at this time that's the best you can do. You said:
Quote:
Now, if I meditate and/or go into a trance, I can hold my mind clear long enough to focus on a goal (and by clear, I mean there is NOTHING going on. When I clear my mind, I go all the way. No doubts, no fears, no beliefs, nothing. So shut up about how I was "doubting myself," because I wasn't.


Yes this may seem to be the case, but if that would be the case, you would be instantly enlightened and you would have the most beautiful experience you have ever had in your life. Why is this not the case? Because even if the mind might seem quiet and serene, that's only on the noticeable level on the surface. the mind exists of different levels. you have levels on the surface, and latent levels that go deeper. What you did was: you made the surface of a lake calm, but at the bottom of the lake heavy currents were still moving the water even though teh surface looked calm. On these deeper levels, the mind is programmed, conditioned and sleeping impressions cloud your clarity and potential power. You are limited in your belief and Self-Doubt is always present beneath the surface wheter you notice it or not. So the trick is to master the mind on all it's levels. that's why I always say when one masters the mind (or: himself) he masters everything.

So A*I=P is the correct theory and the result of P will always reflect your level of A & I. If P is you flying around in your neighbourhood, you know your A & I is very trained and your mind is developed.

So all we need is A&I and then P will increase as we grow. When the power of our consciousness grows, or rather: when the power of our minds grows due to control of consciousness over the mind, we will automatically increase our A&I. that is why eventually we have to do nothing in order to manifest any intention into the world. Even into the physical realm.

When consciousness over mind increases, Mind over matter increases multiplied. Always aim for the source of things as not to waste your precious time with little goals. Aim for the source and everything will be yours.

MA
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Being at peace makes me overly optimistic anyways. on Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:44 pm

Eldibs

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 909

Quote:
Yes there are limits. The physical realm has more limits than for example the realm of Ether would you agree? In the physical world bones can only take so much force before they break. In the subtler world of energies like Electro magnetic energies, Ether, sound waves etc... things cannot break. Sure there are limits in that realm too in a certain sense, though because of teh fact that at the subtler levels of reality the energy is not as dense as it is on the physical the limits are also much more flexible and borders along with limits are hard to tell. Ether is not the subtlest level yet. There are many levels like this, many levels of subtlety and many different velocities with which energy vibrates. The higher the vibration,, the more subtler the energy and therefore the less borders and limits that specific realm of energy has. Less laws as well.

So even though there seem to be many limits on the physical level, there are far less limits on the subtler levels and those subtler levels are the goal of the psion. It is in those levels that our consciousness must penetrate in order to command those realms. Lightning is subtler than my bones. The energies that are present prior to creating the concetrated beam of electrical energy we call lightning, are even more subtle.


First, lightning is not any more subtle than a bar of steel. Both are made of the same set of elementary particles, just arranged differently and moving differently. Lightning is all electrons, whereas steel is electrons, protons, and neutrons. Also, energy has its limits as well. Try building a plasma rifle with an 'AAA' battery. It won't work, because the electromagnetic energy in the battery isn't enough for the massive amount of energy needed. Now, electromagnetic energy can be powerful, but only if you have enough of it. Larger magnets stick together more strongly, larger electric currents can travel further. Leaving out skill for a moment, you can only manipulate a given amount of energy based upon your body chemistry, psychological make-up, genetics, etc... and a given amount of energy can only do so much. So it stands to reason that the psionic feats you can perform are also limited.

I would put it mathematically like this:

I = Intent
A = Attention
E = The amount of energy you can work with in respect to the required amount
P = Maximum Psionic effect in respect to the goal

I * A * E = P

If E does not equal 1, then your high I and A will get you a low P. If your I is not 1, then your high A and E will get you a low P. Etc....

Quote:
Yes this may seem to be the case, but if that would be the case, you would be instantly enlightened and you would have the most beautiful experience you have ever had in your life. Why is this not the case? Because even if the mind might seem quiet and serene, that's only on the noticeable level on the surface. the mind exists of different levels. you have levels on the surface, and latent levels that go deeper. What you did was: you made the surface of a lake calm, but at the bottom of the lake heavy currents were still moving the water even though teh surface looked calm. On these deeper levels, the mind is programmed, conditioned and sleeping impressions cloud your clarity and potential power. You are limited in your belief and Self-Doubt is always present beneath the surface wheter you notice it or not. So the trick is to master the mind on all it's levels. that's why I always say when one masters the mind (or: himself) he masters everything.


Yes, the mind has many levels. The conscious, the subconscious, all the bended area between the two, etc... I am perfectly aware of my subconscious mind. Actually, I like to converse with it in my waking state in the mornings from time to time (because it's easier to talk to for me at that time). I'm not gonna disagree that my mind is 'programmed' to think certain ways. Everybody's mind is 'programmed,' through mental associations, emotions, past experiences, we are all programmed in one way or another. However, when I said I clear my mind, I meant setting EVERYTHING aside. Including, but not limited to: Physical laws, emotions, thoughts in general, guilt, fear, inhibitions, beliefs (religious and spiritual), ethics, my sense of self, and the list goes on. This is why I refuse to practice PK. I know how dangerous PK can be, and I know when I get into that state, I have the potential to seriously hurt people. Being able to cast aside all guilt, inhibitions, fears, and ethics? A little frightening to me.

As well, I know my attention was completely focused on my intent. I know my mind inside and out. I spent a lot of time observing myself, analyzing my surface thoughts, listening for subconscious thoughts, going over past experiences, basically studying how my mind works. Also, since I am me, I know what I experience when I experience it. Given that I know my mind thoroughly, it stands to reason that if my mind is clear, and that I feel nothing going on in my subconscious, nor do I hear a peep from it, I can safely state that my attention was on my intent.

I always hear that enlightenment is a beautiful experience, and that inner peace is so great. That may be the case, but there are many more things I have to do before I go looking for either in any permanent state. Besides, I've had a few brief moments of 'inner peace,' lasting maybe a few hours at most. It's not that great. I'd rather have enjoyment than peace, thank you very much.

Quote:
Always aim for the source of things as not to waste your precious time with little goals.


You know, I've always heard things like this as well. "Don't waste your precious time." "Life is short, don't waste it." "Bla bla bla bla." The average life expectancy for the human male is somewhere around 70 years, if my memory serves correctly (which it usually does). Given my eating habits and disposition, I'll might make it to 50. Fifty years. That means I have to travel around the sun a little over 30 more times before my time is up. What exactly is everyone doing that's taking up so much of their life that they can't "waste their time?" Fifty years may not be much on the scale of the universe, but we're not as old or as long lasting as the universe, now are we? On my scale, 50 years is a looooooong time. That gives me plenty of time to waste. If I die before turning 50, oh well, it's not really my problem anymore then, is it? As well, if I live past 50, then oh shit, I've got more time to fill.

With all that time on my hands, I think I'll stick with the tried and true method of psionics. It's common knowledge that it works, and I've got plenty of time.

Also, trust me on this one, you have no idea what self-doubting is.
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Posted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:38 am

Psi_Fi

Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 28

..........I think Cliff Notes that we can get from this discussion is that we all have the capability to call down lightning, fly, transend limits, etc., the sky isn't the limit. So what....
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Cliff Notes is cheating! on Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:20 pm

Eldibs

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 909

Actually, the Cliff Notes would be that while some believe you can do anything like that, many people consider that fluffy, and the tried and true method of psionics definitely works.
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Posted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:51 pm

McLoud

Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 56

I think this thread drifted too much away from the topic, there is way too many non-constructive replies. You can all believe what you want, psionics isn't about belief as long as you don't doubt yourself too much and end up getting a mental block. Many here wouldn't understand what the deeper levels of consciousness can bring and those who do are already you their own way to it. So let just focus on how to accomplish something with what we have at hand. If you can already do TK, you are probably half-way of doing it. There were already some good repplies of how to do it, and some from people who did it, that's all you need to try. If you ain't willing to try, then there is no point in discussing. If you came here just to say it is impossible, you are loosing your time, we already crossed the barrier of what was supposedly possible some good psi-wheels/obe's/moving desks ago
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