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| Spiritual enlightenment on Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:56 pm | |||||||||||||
MartialArtist
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 |
This subject actually began at the end of the topic called: "Meditation and the risks involved." Which is in the technique section as well. Seraven asked me a personal question in that topic, but since it was not my topic, and because I was missing a topic like this one in the forum, I will continue this here. Feel free to post your thoughts, experiences and questions here, concerning enlightenment.
Note that this is a long post. This post is meant for those who are seriously interested in this subject, and are willing to read, learn, and share in a serious way. If you think that everything I write here is pure crap, then dont respond, or respond on a respectfull manner with at least some arguments and intelligence, so I can respond and explain in a similar way. To start off, here is what Seraven asked me:
I do not really like talking alot about what I personally can or can not do, since that is really not that important. What is more interesting though, is what the human consciousness is able to do. So I will talk mostly about the phenomenon enlightenment itself, rather then about me. If you have personal questions, I will answer most of them, but try to keep the subject general instead of personal. Enlightenment of human consciousness is a very important subject, and in this time we are currently living in, it even has a little urgency to it. So I'll be happy to share how I see things concerning this, or related subjects. With that said, I will tell you a little about my experience on this point. I am a Martial Artist yes, though I do not concentrate at the physical level as much as I used to. Now about the conscious awakening. I have reached a certain state of enlightenment yes, though there are deeper levels to get to. My enlightenment has not yet become permanent. Perhaps that's the best way to describe it. I am in an enlightened state of mind approximately one third of the time that I am awake. Though when I am not directly in this state, I do benefit from it still, even when not being in this state. It is a little hard to describe, so sorry if it sounds a little abstract at certain points. The experience itself is not really expressable in words. Just a part of it is, and I'll do my best to give you an indication. I have reached the point in which you can get most answers from within yourself. I know and recognise truth when I encounter it. Also do I have very little or no conflict with the world I am living in. I have no inner resistance to life as it is in the present moment. I almost continuesly feel inner piece and lots of times undescribable joy, That does not seem to have any specific cause (yeah people often ask me: What are you smiling about? Then I tend to answer with: hmm, thats a good question. Im trying to figure that out myself too, I'll let you know when I found the answer  ) Ever had the experience that you were very very happy and joyfull, but you couldn't figure out what caused this sensation? Then you were connected to your true self for a moment.  Most times you feel very joyfull about life itself, but it seems to have no cause outside of you. Thats an important way to measure your current state of enlightenment.
When you manage to detach your consciousness from your mind and ego, your consciousness will be free. You can see it like this: Currently, your consciousness goes, where your thoughts and emotions guide your consciousness to go... think about it. You do not really have the ability to choose. Though it might seem as if you are actually the one making the choices of your life, you aren't. It is your thoughts that make you choose. You will have to realise that consciousness(you) and thoughts, are not the same. So your consciousness is currently trapped in your process and your repeating pattern of thinking. You will have to free your consciousness from this prison of the mind(thoughts, emotions, ego). If you do so, then the thoughts won't controll you, but you will controll your thoughts, and only use them when nessicary. There are different levels in enlightenment. Letting go of the ego, is the most difficult form, and thats also the one I am still working on. Though my ego may at this point be tamed to a certain degree, I am not free of it yet. For most people this is the hardest step to take. But it is a nessicary step if one wants to make it to full enlightenment. Because enlightenment is nothing more that becoming aware of your true existence. Becoming conscious of your true self.(pure consciousness) Your true self, is the source from which everything manifests and pops into existence. It is the silence underneath the noise, It is the emptyness underneath the space, and it is the timelesness underneath the illusion of time. Become aware of this in the here and now, and you are aware of your true self. This will gradually lead you to enlightenment. Enlightenemnt is not something you need to read alot of books for. It is not something that you can reach only after have gained enough information from the outside world. Knowlegde and wisdom will come by itself once one realises his true nature. 
Let me tell you the reason why most spiritual seekers, do not find what they are looking for: As long as you keep seeking for something out there, you will never find it where it can only be found: In the here and now. So please do not believe that you cannot possibly become enlightened before you have gathered so much information and knowledge. Knowledge can function as a key to open the mind, and I must admit that reading and studying the subject, has personally helped me alot. But knowledge only helps if you apply it in the present moment. On the other hand, if you are reading alot and are gaining knowledge, but you only project that knowledge at an imaginary future, then you miss the whole point. Don't let knowledge be just another prize for your ego to fill his already overloaded closet with imaginary belongings with. this way you will only enhance your identification with that one thing that keeps you seperated from the source. Basically it is like this: You are the universal consciousness, and you have chosen to experience yourself through a process of life on earth. You are experiencing life in your own creation here(your life), and you are trying to find your way back to your true self, so you can experience yourself. That is the goal of your pure consciousness(god). That is the inner urge everybody feels, but due to ignorance of life itself, everybosy thinks this urge is an urge for wealth, or money or status. But after having status and wealth, they find out that even then, there is still something missing. They are still not innerly satisfied. That is because what you really feel, is your incompletion, or rather, your inner completion, that has been covered, and is dying to be re-found. You want to experience your true selfs and find that inner peace. But our consciousness made a mistake by identifying itself with the fragile and the transitory in this manifested creation. This is the point where ego kicks in. Ego considers itself as just a little fraction, in an incredibly huge and hostile universe. Your ego thinks that he is an isolated entity, and as a result of that, he starts to protect himself. This is the source of all fears: Because you consciously, and subconsciously actually belief that you are this ego, this isolated entity... ofcourse you have to fear! You are as fragile as an apple on a highway! Though you will only experience this fear and fragility, if you have identified yourself with that isolated ego(currently almost all of us have unfortunately.) So the art of enlightenment is to dissolve your conscious and subconscious identification with your ego. This way your consciousness will experience freedom at last.
You can compare it to a wave in the ocean, that suddenly realises that he is not only that wave, he is the entire ocean. So now the oceans consciousness can and will offcourse still operate through that wave, but he will never forget again, that he is in fact the entire ocean. There is alot of information running through my mind right now, and I could go on for dozens of pages about this subject, but for now I will stop here, and go on later if it seems that people are interested. Greetings, MA |
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| Posted on Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:35 pm | |||||||||||||
Seraven
Joined: 27 Jan 2006 |
First off, I'd just like to thank you for spending the time to type this out. You're really doing me--and everyone else--a great service. So again, thank you for enlightening me with your gathered knowledge (pun intended. ).
I, myself, am also extremely interested in this whole 'journey of inner-peace', but I can also admit that I fear the implications. Of course, I realize that this is my ego trying to protect itself. We fear what we don't understand. It's a tested and true saying of how we, as human beings, fear to grow. We fear to evolve to something more, to greater beings. I apologize, though. My questioning was not intended to be rude in nature. I hadn't meant to pry, and if you felt I had, you have my condolences. Perhaps my curiousity got the better of me. I was excited to find another who had begun the journey of selflessness, of true consciousness. Either way, I realize that this isn't the point of the topic. I thought I'd just make it clear, though. 
Everything you've said, though... especially the point of mentioning the urgency of our position, I can't help but make a connection. I wonder, do you have your eyes set on the time in which ascension will occur? Everything you've said sounds familiar to the things I've read, to all of the knowledge I've gathered on the topic. Might you be speaking of the coming year of 2012? This is all that I shall ask for now, for it is late, but I would enjoy to continue our 'debate' of sorts on the issue. So please, I would be ever grateful if you'd say more. 
Thanks. -Seraven |
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| Posted on Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:33 am | |||||||||||||
Lightbringer
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 |
"In an enlightened state of mind approximately one third of the time"?! Boy, you sure have me beat there lol. I'm currently attempting to achieve the same thing as you MartialArtist and your descriptions of the nonsensically joyous feelings and the actual ability to choose instead of being lead on by your ego's fears (like "what will others think if I do this?" which has always been the big one for me) all match with my experiences.
Thank you for posting this, it's been...reassuring. However the one amazing thing with this type of transformation of thought processes and spiritual understanding is that it never really occurs to oneself that maybe they're just going nuts. With changes as drastic as these, it's odd how "right" it feels, so maybe reassuring isn't quite the right word but you get the idea. Now I remember why I started posting here instead of hanging around Veritas, posts like this (and the people who write them).
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| Posted on Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:38 am | |||||||||||||
Thanatos
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 |
Serevan, that whole acension thing reminded me of a bad episode of Stargate hehe. Anyway, about that 2012 thing you mentioned, i have been hearing it allot latley, whats that about? Some sort of prediction? If yes are there any historical documents about this? What culture made the predictions? Where was the document recovered / who recovered it? Are there any original translations of the document online? Sorry for the questions but everyone keeps telling me about this without actully knowning any information about it. | ||||||||||||
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| Posted on Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:35 am | |||||||||||||
MartialArtist
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 |
Really, that's no problem at all. First of all I like talking about this subject, it is in my eyes actually the only really relevant subject that one can talk about, since it talks about the pure essence of life itself, instead of talking about all the illusions and creations we have made in it. Also what thw world needs now, are as many messengers as we can possibly get. I'll explain a little later why.
Well, This is good . You have already made the first and most important step. You acknowledge and recognise the fast that your ego is making your fear. Step one needed for every kind of transformation or grow, needs the first step which is: becoming conscious of the problem. Then you can work on it. Most people want to chance, but they cannot see their flaws. You can never solve something if you do not acknowledge the problem in the first place. So keep practicing in recognising the ego from yourself. This alone, will already dissolve the identification between you and your ego, so that's good.
Don't feel burdened my man, it takes a hell of a lot more to insult me of any kind. Thats one thing enlightenment brings, is the stopping of confilct in the inner and outer world, no-one can bring you dont or hurt your feelings. Neither will you have a strong judgement about other people. I just wanted to make sure you guys knew that I don't really like talking about my personal experience on matters like these, but more talk about it in general. Because if This topis is all about me, then we are misinterpretating the universal knowledge, as me. Eckhart tolle once said about enlightened people: "They are the open window through which a breeze is flowing. The breeze can easlily, and mistakenly, be identified with the window." So lets talk more about the breeze, instead of the window .
That is indeed right. Nicely spotted. I didn't actually want to bring the subject up, since it is very abstract, also to me still, but I'll share most of what I know about it. You should keep in mind that 2012 is the most uncertain date ever, and that alot is about to happen before that date as well. It is the end of the Maya calender, and these people seemed to know already that there was some major global shift about to happen at this date. 2012 is the end of a cyclus of 26.000 years, and is the beginning of a new cyclus of 26.000 years. Basically speaking, there are two major options for what will approximately happen. one is: the collective sick and egoistic human psyche, will reach a dramatic point and that will most likele become the end of our human rase as we know it. You can already see the global and collective sickness that keeps rising. You can tell by the deeds of mankind(all the wars) and you can tell by nature's respond on the sick human psyche(we got more hurricanes and tsunami's and earthquakes then ever before, and it is still counting). So the egoistic psyche is growing, but, there is another kind of consciousness that is growing. That is the consciousness of of enlightened human beings. The more people that get enlightened, the more impact it will have on the collective consciousness. So either we will go down, or, (this next option is most likely to happen, but we have alot of work to do) a new consciousness will arise. And it will finally become heaven on earth. This is also alot of times predicted by jezus and others. So we got some choices to make, do we keep living our daily, illusional life in which we really believe that we are some identity in this universe? or will we finally start to look at why we are really born, and fullfill that potential, instead of following the path that our parents and society has laid down for us, since they think to know whats best to do. They don't. Believe me, you are not born to participate in this global sickness . There is a deeper goal offcourse. You all know that inside. But the ego wants to sustain itself, thats why this is so hard to let go.
Unfortunately, I have to go. So thanatos, perhaps I have slightly answered your question as well. And lightbringer, Good thing to know man. I already noticed in your other posts that you are, or at least are trying, to follow this path. Goodluck to all, I'll be back in 4 hours, sharing more
cya MA ps. I didnt have time to check for gammar mistakes and unproper sentences and such, so bear with me
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| Posted on Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:39 am | |||||||||||||
Bex
Joined: 15 Jan 2006 |
This was an interesting thread before you started talking about apocalyptic prophecies and the return of "Jezus." You almost had credibility. 
You may have reached a state of inner peace and some degree of enlightenment, and that means you understand yourself and how to be happy. But it does NOT mean you have a scholarly understanding of the political situation of the world. Nor does it mean that you are in any position to pretend you have half a clue about the processes of global warming or climate change. For starters, nutballs like yourself have been predicting the apocalypse so many times over that you'd think they'd quit. How about the year 2000? Know why it's all bullshit? Because it relies on arbitrary assertions. The Mayans were an intriuging and mysterious people in history, but they were not magical or superhuman. They were just people, who were trying to make sense of their world the very way we are now trying to make sense of ours. And if anything, we have far greater information now about the world with which to be making any predictions (of the scientific variety, that is). One fact you might want to underline is that mankind has existed for over 100,000 years, according to anthropological findings. Additionally, it would be helpful for you to understand that humanity has faced FAR worse times, politically, than it is right now, even in memorable history (and I am approaching this from an American standpoint): Vietnam, WW1, WW2, the Cold War, the Crusades, etc. People always thinks the decade they're in is somehow of critical importance in a way dramatically worse from all times before. It's such a shame that so many people mistakenly believe their inner wisdom makes them experts on anything else, especially where science and scholarly study come in. This kind of fallacious talk is why the new agers are looked upon by the general population with such derision and contempt. By talking about subjects you know nothing about, you are destroying your credibility. Additionally, you must differentiate between your psi experience and your understanding of it. The latter falls under religion/philosophy, and is not appropriate in these forums according to the rules as I understood them. |
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| Posted on Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:12 am | |||||||||||||
MartialArtist
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 |
Hey there Bex,
I didn't say anything about the return of jezus. I just pointed out that alot of highly spiritually evolved people from the past have predicted things like this. You can't deny that Jezus was an extraordinary human being. though his intentions may mostly be misinterpretated by the church, fact is, that he was highly evolved. So I don't want to bring religion into this subject, because it has nothing to do with it. When I talk about jezus or buddha, I am talking about them as human consciousness, and not about the religion that there presence has caused to exist afterwards. Im just talking about people like you and me, who have made it to legendary status because they were highly evolved. Keep that in mind.
You are judging and prejudging me here, based on an idea you have of people who are predicting the apocalypse. And what about the year 2000? I havent said anything about these things.
You are judging me for claiming to know anything about the mayans, but you are doing exactly the same. First of all, I haven't said that they were superhuman. I know they were highly evolved and could make predictions concerning earth and his rotation, thanks to their extraordinary knowledge of the stars. So they could one way or another, see that a cyclus of 26.000 years have reached his end in 2012, and a new cyclus of 26.000 years will begin. Second, I believe the ancient cultures like the ancient egyptians and the Myans, were much more evolved in a spiritual way. So therefor they were connected to the source, and that is where the only reliable anwsers come from. Though you may not like this, since you depend alot on proven facts, but once you are able to get in the state of enlightenment yourself, you will know what I am talking about. Because you have to keep in mind, that things that are "proved" by science, are at the most fundamentel reality, still no truths. Science is only exploring life from a point of view within this creation that most call reality, but enlightened consciousness, explores life from a point of view that stands outside of this creation. A point of view that lies at the source of all life. This is therefor the only place that real and relevant answeres come from. You cannot fully understand something, if you are in it. Just as you cannot fully see a box when you are sitting in it, but when you get outside the box, you will be able to see alot more of that box. Just like you cannot solve a problem with the same state of mind that has created it.
You are very right. I didn't claim that the madness is starting now, it has already begun long time ago, and it is getting worse and worse. If you are familiar with history, you will know that when it comes to collective madness, the last century is indeed the maddest of all(WW1, WW2, Vietnam, and the cold war). So this growth of the sickness in the collective human psyche, is a long process that keeps getting worse. So finally things will either have to collapse, or something new will arise. That is inevitable. This process works the same for everything. And if you consider all the ancient clues referring to the year 2012, I really assume that that is the time in which things will either collapse, or refresh. Btw, if you really need to have approvel from science, then look it up. There are some interesting discoveries on this area. Science has studied the earth's rotating speed, and the earth's heartbeat so to say, and they discovered that in 2012, earth is likely to chance his rotation(this seems to happen evry 26.000 years). They estimated that earth will stand still for approximately 3 days, and will then start to spin the other way around (So the sun will come up in the West, and go down in the east ) . This way the Earth's EM-field will restore an refresh, and that will tremendously add to our health and the way we mentally feel. Becuase as you might know, the Earth's EM-field is actually the single most polluted and affected aspect of nature. Due to all the cellphones and electric cables and such. And as you know the Earth's EM-field is very important for the health of Humans.
Even these scientists couldn't help to make a connection with all the predictions by ancient cultures. Even lots of scientists now believe that the human collective consciousness, can decide wether this new EM-refreshment, and the change in direction of the earths rotation will come or not. They also said that if we do not stabilize our collective consciousness and therefor stabilize nature, Earth will probably not make this shift. I don't know the details anymore, studied it long time ago, but perhaps you can find something on it on internet, if you like. And what I said about nature, wasnt anything about global warming or political stuff. Politics have really not so much to do with this matter. But Nature does reflect the collective human psyche, and we are destroying nature more than ever. When more people reach a state of inner peace, the world will automatically reflect this. The animals and nature. That's just how it works, because they are connected to that same field of consciousness. And again, as jezus symbolically said it: "The lion will lay down by the sheep." Referring to the change in the animal behaviour, once the Human consciousness becomes consciouss again.
Why is it that you keep judging me and putting me in a certain box, while you don't know anything about me  .
I am not a new-ager, and I do not talk about things I don't have any knowledge of. I have done my scientific, historical, and most of all spiritual research. You see, this is why I like to keep things in general, and not personal. I normally don't feel the need to defend or explain myself to people who are not open to this subject yet, but since alot of people read this, who are open-minded and ready, I will have to state my point of view. But please don't get too personal from now on. I don't like a debate between superficial personalities(ego's) judging each other, trying to get their right. It will only feed you feeling of being isolated from the universe.
I am not defending any kind of religion. And to you who love science so much, and hate religion, beware, because science is very similar to religion, and could be considered the main religion nowadays. Though science doesnt act in the name of a god, the dependence of people and society on science nowadays, is just as big as the dependence from people and society as it used to be with any other religion. The influence science has on the people's minds, is just the same as with religion. In order to be free, you will have to depend and belong to no kind of religion or science. You will have to study life as it is. That is what spirituality means to me. It is not just another religion. It is the freedom of religion. Though religion can eventually bring some people enlightenment, it will not help you if you are strictly dependent on the rules and beliefs of the church you are under. Same goes for science. Science has started to get really interested the last couple of years(people mostly dont realise that science nowadays walks almost hand in hand with spirituality, people often still think of science as the Newton science, which is approx. 400 years old ), but when one's experience and beliefs becomes dependent on what is proven so far, then one will not be able to see life as it comes to you. You will instead see life through the filters of your judgement.
Bex, the way you are talking, I can see you are judging alot, and putting everything in the boxes of your mind. When you read what I write here, then please keep in mind that these are only words I use to make enlightenment a little less abstract. I am not stating things here as truth that you must follow, Though I know for myself that it is the truth, I am just offering a key for you to free yourself. In order to fully understand me, you must have at least had some experience with enlightenment, or be it yourself. You pity that people mistakenly believe their inner wisdom to give them knowledge about everything else. Thats not exactly how it works. You will know your self, and therefor you will know others like they cannot possibly know theirselves, unless they are free as well. Also will you know what consciousness and this universe are really like. I am just sharing here what I know about this life's source, it's existence, and it's goal. As long as you are not free, you are not able to experience what I am talking about. So please try to consider this when you are judging me or others around. I do personally not mind it if you judge me, for that is your flaw and that is something you are not ready to see yet. Though what I do kind of pity, is that you are limiting yourself so much. There is a difference between thinking that you know, and knowing itself. The latter can only be experienced if your consciousness is free, so your thoughts can stop distracting your inner knowledge. Thats the only way you can really know, without thinking to know. Many know what I am talking about, and have experienced this in at least some way. Perhaps you also listen to your inner self from time to time. I hope so. I hope one day we can all share this state of mind. This pure, undivided consciousness that only knows real love. Love and joy without an opposite. End of duality. Beginning of oneness. That is my only wish. Bex, thank you for sharing. I wish you love, insight and open-mindedness in your progress. As to all, Greetings, MA |
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| Posted on Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:13 pm | |||||||||||||
Thanatos
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 |
Im going to have to agree with Bex here, the world is FAR more peaceful then it was in previous years. If anything the political world is getting better then it use to be. There are no barbarians or "pirates" anymore. Yes there are criminals but far less then existed in earlier years. Please don't write the world "Jezus" again MartialArtists, its spelled "Jesus". As far as global warming is concerned, yes we are killing the enviroment, but it will take alot more decades before we see any serious changes due to this. MartialArtist Bex did not claim to know anything about the Mayans, he just said that before you make any kind of claim you need the information to back it up. Have you studied the original translations of the documents recovered? As far as spiritual enlightment is concerned all i have to say is that wisdom comes with experience, as much as you meditate, without the proper experience you will never reach a state that you can understand your self perfectly. As far as the world is concerned, as much as you don't want to beleive it, no human can ever reach a state to understand the workings and the balance of the universe. | ||||||||||||
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| Posted on Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:23 pm | |||||||||||||
MartialArtist
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 |
Hey there Thanatos,
Ok, I will spell it as Jesus next time. In my Country it is spelled as Jezus. Sorry for that.
I understand why you believe these things you say you believe. And it has no point if I am going to lecture you about what I know. I will only say to you, that as long as you are bound to merely opinions (which flow from the imprisoned consciousness), you cannot understand what I am talking about. I am sorry to put it like this. I really do not mean to offend you in any way, but fact is, that you can only agree with me, once you have been there. You see, it is possible to know the universe, because when enlightenment comes, you realise that you are the universe. And then you will know yourself, therefore, you will know the universe. It is as simple as that  .
MA |
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| Posted on Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:28 pm | |||||||||||||
Thanatos
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 |
MartialArtist, you are really starting to sound like that guy from "Stargate" (The TV Series). Have you ever thought that your "state" may be a mere illusion created by your mind? Sorry for asking but how old are you? How come in your enlightened state you can't spell perfectly? | ||||||||||||
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| Posted on Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:35 pm | |||||||||||||
MartialArtist
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 |
@ Thanatos,
Once you have been there, you will see that it is real. It trancends the mind, therefore it is not an illusion of the mind. What 99% of society is living is, is the illusion of the mind. But please, if you are not open for the fact that it is possible what I am saying, then I would like it if you would just ignore me . People who are open to it, and want to know about this matter, I will share with them, for then my energy is not for nothing. I am writing alot of things here that most of us cannot imagine, so I understand that it sounds as if I am a lunatic, but there are people who are ready for spiritual awakening, and it is for them, that I write this ans share. So if you are open to it, I am happy to discuss with you, but if you cannot be open to this, because it is completely new for you, then I would friendly ask you just to ignore this lunatic. It is probably the best for both you, me and this Peebrain's webspace.
MA (edit: I see you have edited your post alitle. It is now getting personal and disrespectfull. And that is not my intention with this post. Please don't share here anymore, if all you have to do is critisize me) |
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| Posted on Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:41 pm | |||||||||||||
Peebrain
Site Admin |
No religion/spirituality please.
PsiPog is not a place to help others reach "enlightenment", nor is it a place to share "enlightenment" techniques. One of the fundamental purposes of PsiPog is to avoid religion and spirituality as much as possible. Doing so in a PM is fine, but this thread is far from private. Please respect the rules. ~Sean |
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