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It's probably real
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Posted on Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:09 pm

JOHNNYBEGOOD

Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 354

You didn't read it, either. Friggin' tard. Emoto has poor quality control for his experiments.
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Posted on Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:12 pm

derricktheone

Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 356

JOHNNYBEGOOD wrote:
You didn't read it, either. Friggin' tard. Emoto has poor quality control for his experiments.


Well the tard part was pretty immature...And I never said I believed everything in the article...I said Grinoth might find it interesting, as did I. That doesn't mean I fully believe in it. I think mabye you should've read my post better actually. Why so bitter Johnny? That time of the month Embarassed
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Posted on Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:50 pm

JOHNNYBEGOOD

Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 354

derricktheone wrote:
JOHNNYBEGOOD wrote:
You didn't read it, either. Friggin' tard. Emoto has poor quality control for his experiments.


Well the tard part was pretty immature...And I never said I believed everything in the article...I said Grinoth might find it interesting, as did I. That doesn't mean I fully believe in it. I think mabye you should've read my post better actually. Why so bitter Johnny? That time of the month Embarassed
Ugh, I've been getting lazy and cocky, that's all. Sorry.
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Posted on Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:16 am

mattz1010

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 885

Quote:
Also in this movie, they explained that our minds can only let us see what we believe in. For example, when Colmbus's ships approached land, the natives there could not see them. They could only see the ripples in the water. Why? Because they had never seen anything like these ships, and could not imagine them. Since they thought they didn't exist, their mind wouldn't let them see the ships.


There are soooooo aliens spying on us right now.

I can't imagine what an alien ship could possibly look like.
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Posted on Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:20 pm

paradigm

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 6

Oh boy...what exactly is with peoples need to "know"? I'll explain myself.

It started off when I was reading through a series of posts related to someone's pet theory. I came across yet another rather ignorant reply posted by JOHNNYBEGOOD, and I was in the process of replying when I realized I should probably do a bit of research concerning the rest of JOHNNY's postings. Sure enough, I wasn't wrong in my original assumptions, however I did happen across this little "number" (in that, I mean this thread and any other related topics conerning quantum physics). After reading through this thread and the other related threads I have decided a posting might be better here.

First of all, I'd like to point out two particulars I have been watching/researching...JOHNNYBEGOOD and pants. Now, I am of the mind that skepticism is a good thing; I can recognize many a time that being skeptical has gotten me out of some really retarded situations (no offence to anyone who would consider themselves retards). In fact, I use skepticism daily; it's just part of research. However, and I will stress this, skepticism taken to it's extreme is just as bad as any religious dogma and is just as blind; your postings are a case in point. You would say many are hasty to believe anything that (possibly) proves the existance psionics...well, I might say you are all too hasty in believing anything that (possibily) proves your skepticism regarding the existance of psionics...and the results will be borne upon you here. I honestly cannot believe the utter lack of respect you seem to be capable of; however that is the nature of the internet. People feel they can wear a mask of anonymity and then they are relieved of their own personal responsibilities as people, to people.

Everyone here has a particular context through which they see things, they have a certain perspective given their life experiences/learnings. As such, it is inevitable that we will not always agree on things. So then, how do we go about dealing with another's context and/or perspective? Check the rules; there are, in my opinion, some pretty good guidelines to follow.

Of course, there will always come the time when you want to check out someone's credability and whatnot. By all means, go ahead; as I said above, skepticism is a good thing...however, in moderation. Skepticism, at it's extreme, is ignorant. As well, just because you are skeptical doesn't mean you have to go around treating people like shit. Skepticism doesn't produce truth anymore than someone else's context...so you can stop pretending it does, anytime now.

With that said, I will move on to concerns about quantum mechanics and their (possible) relations to consciousness. Let me say this: I will end this arguement in about ten seconds, and it is due to a very big philosophical problem that everyone is conveniently ignoring (as always with this stuff). Is quantum mechanics tied into consciousness, or not? Good question...maybe we should all start by finding out what the hell consciousness is first and foremost. Oh, that's right...the "hard" problem is the problem of consciousness, which isn't exactly an issue we can tackle scientifically (at least for now). So long as we cannot actually define consciousness, we cannot do any work related to consciousness. This, I can assure you, is a fact. The first step is always philosophy.

So, quantum mechanics being related to consciousness is possible...but that's it; it's possible.

In essence, what I am saying here as well is that the paper you dug up (which was incredible, I admit) concerning shrodingers cat is actually pretty pointless as it, as many others before it, side step the "hard" problem of consciousness. As I was saying above...hasty, hasty; you are just as eager to believe anything that proves your skepticism right.

Next thing I would like to deal with is the idea of "cults". I cannot believe how many people out there are soo freaked out by the idea of people having different contexts and/or perspectives, and forbid, a place where they can freely embrace those contexts. Once again, this boils down to contexts and one's tolerance for other's ideas...not whether it is a "cult".

Speaking of which, it looks like I may have to define what a "cult" actually is, according to studies in sociology, as it seems to many people here don't actually know what a "cult" is. A "cult" is, in a sense, an incredibly minor group which has a point of view that often conflicts with established norms; hence why "cults" have such a negative image (consider the few "cult" stories which have successfully made people scared shitless of any "different" point of view).

I RSE a "cult" then? Yes; according to the definiton, they are. However, there are "cults" all over the place, and whether you like it or not, you are technically participating in them...so you can drop the "cult" equals "dumb fucks" interrelationship anytime you don't want to have to recognize yourself as a "dumb fuck" like everyone else.

Lastly, something else I notice alot of is the use of the term "new age" as some sort of a negative catch-all. If you are going to use the term "new age" please actually take the time to find out it what it means and use it when it's actually appropriate; it isn't a negative catch-all phrase for everything you don't believe in.

With that all said, I feel this post is done. All I have to say is, at the very core what I am seeing is a lack of respect for others. I mean, it's great to be skeptical, and to debate things, whatnot...but to go about preaching your "truth" (scientific or not) as though it were a law of the universe just isn't fair...and sinking even lower to call people names and such, is just plain immature.

In fact, here's a little something to mull over for a while concerning your assuredness in science, or any of the like for that matter:

In the end, there is no such thing as knowledge, for we do not know both the alpha and the omega; there is only faith.

I always find this thought humbling...I remind myself of it ever time I get a little too sure of myself.

As such I take leave, for now...

with much respect...

Peace

paradigm[SHIFT]
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Posted on Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:58 pm

paraplayer

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 147

paradigm wrote:

First of all, I'd like to point out two particulars I have been watching/researching...JOHNNYBEGOOD and pants. Now, I am of the mind that skepticism is a good thing; I can recognize many a time that being skeptical has gotten me out of some really retarded situations (no offence to anyone who would consider themselves retards). In fact, I use skepticism daily; it's just part of research. However, and I will stress this, skepticism taken to it's extreme is just as bad as any religious dogma and is just as blind; your postings are a case in point. You would say many are hasty to believe anything that (possibly) proves the existance psionics...well, I might say you are all too hasty in believing anything that (possibily) proves your skepticism regarding the existance of psionics...and the results will be borne upon you here. I honestly cannot believe the utter lack of respect you seem to be capable of; however that is the nature of the internet. People feel they can wear a mask of anonymity and then they are relieved of their own personal responsibilities as people, to people.


I'd just like to point that, though people have different perceptions there are certain things that are pretty universal. It's pretty hard to argue that 2 + 2 = 5 for instance. Both Pants and JONNYBEGOOD have used pretty simple reasoning and logic in making their points.
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Posted on Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:49 pm

JOHNNYBEGOOD

Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 354

I'd like to say that lately I've been bit rude lately and I'm trying to fix that up. Sorry for any insults.

Oh, yeah:
wikipedia wrote:
The term New Age describes a broad movement of late 20th century and contemporary Western culture, characterised by an individual eclectic approach to spiritual exploration. Collectively, New Age has some attributes of an emergent religion, but it is too diverse and diffuse to qualify. [1] [2]

Many of the ideas of the New Age movement are elements of older spiritual and religious traditions, from both east and west, melded with modern ideas from science especially psychology and ecology.


I don't know what you're complaining about, paradigm. I think I got it right before.
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Posted on Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:54 pm

derricktheone

Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 356

paraplayer wrote:
paradigm wrote:

First of all, I'd like to point out two particulars I have been watching/researching...JOHNNYBEGOOD and pants. Now, I am of the mind that skepticism is a good thing; I can recognize many a time that being skeptical has gotten me out of some really retarded situations (no offence to anyone who would consider themselves retards). In fact, I use skepticism daily; it's just part of research. However, and I will stress this, skepticism taken to it's extreme is just as bad as any religious dogma and is just as blind; your postings are a case in point. You would say many are hasty to believe anything that (possibly) proves the existance psionics...well, I might say you are all too hasty in believing anything that (possibily) proves your skepticism regarding the existance of psionics...and the results will be borne upon you here. I honestly cannot believe the utter lack of respect you seem to be capable of; however that is the nature of the internet. People feel they can wear a mask of anonymity and then they are relieved of their own personal responsibilities as people, to people.


I'd just like to point that, though people have different perceptions there are certain things that are pretty universal. It's pretty hard to argue that 2 + 2 = 5 for instance. Both Pants and JONNYBEGOOD have used pretty simple reasoning and logic in making their points.


I'd just like to comment that isn't quantam physics about how 2+2 actually/technically doesn't equal 4?? It's unknown and not logical, but very random. (correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not 100%) Our current math systems are not perfect and have problems that just don't or can't work out...isn't that one reason quantam physics started??...just a question
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Posted on Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:48 pm

JOHNNYBEGOOD

Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 354

derricktheone wrote:
paraplayer wrote:
paradigm wrote:

First of all, I'd like to point out two particulars I have been watching/researching...JOHNNYBEGOOD and pants. Now, I am of the mind that skepticism is a good thing; I can recognize many a time that being skeptical has gotten me out of some really retarded situations (no offence to anyone who would consider themselves retards). In fact, I use skepticism daily; it's just part of research. However, and I will stress this, skepticism taken to it's extreme is just as bad as any religious dogma and is just as blind; your postings are a case in point. You would say many are hasty to believe anything that (possibly) proves the existance psionics...well, I might say you are all too hasty in believing anything that (possibily) proves your skepticism regarding the existance of psionics...and the results will be borne upon you here. I honestly cannot believe the utter lack of respect you seem to be capable of; however that is the nature of the internet. People feel they can wear a mask of anonymity and then they are relieved of their own personal responsibilities as people, to people.


I'd just like to point that, though people have different perceptions there are certain things that are pretty universal. It's pretty hard to argue that 2 + 2 = 5 for instance. Both Pants and JONNYBEGOOD have used pretty simple reasoning and logic in making their points.


I'd just like to comment that isn't quantam physics about how 2+2 actually/technically doesn't equal 4?? It's unknown and not logical, but very random. (correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not 100%) Our current math systems are not perfect and have problems that just don't or can't work out...isn't that one reason quantam physics started??...just a question
On the contrary, mathematics, being in essence abstract, is the most reliable science of all.
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Posted on Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:57 pm

paradigm

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 6

I'm sorry; I had just finished a reply when, unfortunately, I lost it. It was, in my opinion, quite a reply. Doesn't that always seem to happen? Anyways, please bear with me; I will have a reply up as soon as I can find the time to get a post even near the quality of the one I lost.

Perhaps I could just extend a little kudos at this point to you, JOHNNYBEGOOD for having the courage to say the s-word, "sorry". Unfortunately, it is just so in our societal system that it is more acceptable to say "shit" than it is to say "sorry". Kudos.

Until I can get a quality reply up...

Much respect to you all.

Peace

paradigm[SHIFT]
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Posted on Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:07 am

UltimaRage

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 146

You're funny Paradigm.
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Posted on Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:49 am

pants

Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 18

'I honestly cannot believe the utter lack of respect you seem to be capable of'
If you could point out some examples I shall apologies, though, im not aware of showing anyone a total lack of respect.

'People feel they can wear a mask of anonymity and then they are relieved of their own personal responsibilities as people, to people'
Id say anything ive said on here to anyone else, face to face. Though unless your willing to fly to where I am youll have to take my word on it.

'which isn't exactly an issue we can tackle scientifically'
Consciousness as far as science goes is nothing more than the physical functionings of your brain.

Now you could get in to some philosophy concerning the 'spark' of life (For which there is no evidence, and indeed good circumstantial evidence against it.) but it would be besides the point. Quantum physics, as far as we are aware, has no meaningful connection to consciousness, in this case.

'you are just as eager to believe anything that proves your skepticism right'
Um nope. I dont 'believe' anything. I look at what the experiment shows me. It shows me that consciousness (no matter what you personally consider it to be) had no effect on quantum mechanics. Now unless youd like to provide some evidence to the contrary, these experiments (and the fact we dont live in a probabilistic macro universe) is a monumental amount of evidence against the, even more outrageous, RSE theory.

Simply saying its possible is a moot point. Everything is possible from the mundane to the seemingly absurd. The only way we can filter out what is actually going on is through evidence and testing. Once again I will stress. Non thus far has pointed to any connection such as what is claimed by RSE.

'so you can drop the "cult" equals "dumb fucks" interrelationship anytime you don't want to have to recognize yourself as a "dumb fuck" like everyone else.'
Not content with lecturing me on how wrong I am (Deeply ironic considering the whole point of this is you telling to stop 'preaching your "truth"') you are now putting words in my mouth.

First off, cult has more than one definition.

'a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.'

being a more reasonable example of what I am refering to given the circumstances of what we are talking about.

Secondly, I at no point indicated cult equals 'dumb fuck'. Very intelligent people can be bound up in to cults good and bad. That doesnt make a cult worthwhile. Indeed nothing youve said in your diatribe about cults makes RSE a good thing. It takes money from people, large amounts of money. To teach what is not proven, as fact.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I have presented some certainties here. This isnt true, nor is it what science will ever do. All I present is what the evidence currently tells us. Of course this can change and it is a great thing to be proven wrong, but that is the whole point. _Proven_ wrong.

I do hold a great assuredness in science because it always aims to go down the path proven to be most correct.

'In the end, there is no such thing as knowledge, for we do not know both the alpha and the omega; there is only faith.'

I prefer

'Faith is the ability to believe in that which is not true.'

'I'd just like to comment that isn't quantam physics about how 2+2 actually/technically doesn't equal 4?? It's unknown and not logical, but very random.'

You have to be careful with just how you percieve the quantum world. It was unpredictable only because it did not obey commonly used rule sets. With the science that we have done we can now apply fairly acurate predictions something that wouldnt be possible with a world that was entirely random or illogical. It seems to obey a rule set just as our world does. Its just a different one. Understanding it and getting our universes together is a problem we will probably be solving for a very long time to come.
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Posted on Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:55 pm

mattz1010

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 885

*weeps*

That was the...

That was a...

That was the least...

I can't put into words my joy.

That was the least amount of swearing and yelling I've ever seen in 10 posts in a row on the Skeptics forum...And from both sides of the argument.

Truely - today, I am stupefied, stunned, and this day will be a turning point for the remainder of the Psipog forums.

Very Happy
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