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It's probably real
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It's probably real on Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:46 pm

Grintoth_

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 41

Okay. I've been practicing psi for a while, but I've always been a skeptic until now. I just watched the movie "What the Bleep do We Know?" This movie has many facts that all poin to telekinesis, talapathy, and maybe even psi-balls being real.
A japanese scientist tried an eperiment on water to see if our thoughts had an affect on it. He wrote many phrases on water bottles, then froze them, one phrase written on each. When he looked at the frozen water molecules that were in a bottle that said "I love you," the ice was pure and beautiful. A bottle that read "I'm going to kill you" had distorted ice crystals and contaminated water. What is this saying? Did his thoughts effect the water?
Also in this movie, they explained that our minds can only let us see what we believe in. For example, when Colmbus's ships approached land, the natives there could not see them. They could only see the ripples in the water. Why? Because they had never seen anything like these ships, and could not imagine them. Since they thought they didn't exist, their mind wouldn't let them see the ships.
So maybe telekinesis is happening all the time, and our minds just won't let us see it. But if you believe, then you can see it. Maybe whenever we reach our hand out to grab a pencil, it simply floats to us. But since we can't quite comprehend that, our mind may create the illusion that our hand is reaching out to pick up this object. Maybe we don't believe in psi-balls. But when you really believe, it flares. Maybe you really don't have to put any extra "energy" into psi-balls to make them flare. Just belief.
I think I will definately be able to accomplish so much more in psi with these new ideas. Please post if you make any breakthroughs.
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Posted on Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:07 am

PK_11

Joined: 28 May 2006
Posts: 142

The columbus ship thing is, imo, just a poorly made rumor.

For example, how do we see that the earth is round if most people didn't believe that? How did scientists discover atoms when they had no knowledge of them and didn't believe they existed? etc etc...


However, for the most part belief is the key. So, your ideaology still holds. I like your thinking about the mind filling in the blanks, and I believe that happens alot.
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Re: It's probably real on Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:29 am

JOHNNYBEGOOD

Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 354

Grintoth_ wrote:
Okay. I've been practicing psi for a while, but I've always been a skeptic until now. I just watched the movie "What the Bleep do We Know?" This movie has many facts that all poin to telekinesis, talapathy, and maybe even psi-balls being real.
A japanese scientist tried an eperiment on water to see if our thoughts had an affect on it. He wrote many phrases on water bottles, then froze them, one phrase written on each. When he looked at the frozen water molecules that were in a bottle that said "I love you," the ice was pure and beautiful. A bottle that read "I'm going to kill you" had distorted ice crystals and contaminated water. What is this saying? Did his thoughts effect the water?

I dunno. Perhaps this article can explain it.
Quote:
Also in this movie, they explained that our minds can only let us see what we believe in.

Bullshit. Then why do I see new weird stuff every day? Why are we able to see sci-fi movies?
Quote:
For example, when Colmbus's ships approached land, the natives there could not see them. They could only see the ripples in the water. Why? Because they had never seen anything like these ships, and could not imagine them. Since they thought they didn't exist, their mind wouldn't let them see the ships.

Ah, yes. Because records hundreds of years old are REALLY reliable. More likely than not they simply did not see the ships.
Quote:
So maybe telekinesis is happening all the time, and our minds just won't let us see it. But if you believe, then you can see it. Maybe whenever we reach our hand out to grab a pencil, it simply floats to us. But since we can't quite comprehend that, our mind may create the illusion that our hand is reaching out to pick up this object. Maybe we don't believe in psi-balls. But when you really believe, it flares. Maybe you really don't have to put any extra "energy" into psi-balls to make them flare. Just belief.

Go ahead. Make a little fantasy world for yourself.
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Re: It's probably real on Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:00 am

Grintoth_

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 41

JOHNNYBEGOOD wrote:
Grintoth_ wrote:
Okay. I've been practicing psi for a while, but I've always been a skeptic until now. I just watched the movie "What the Bleep do We Know?" This movie has many facts that all poin to telekinesis, talapathy, and maybe even psi-balls being real.
A japanese scientist tried an eperiment on water to see if our thoughts had an affect on it. He wrote many phrases on water bottles, then froze them, one phrase written on each. When he looked at the frozen water molecules that were in a bottle that said "I love you," the ice was pure and beautiful. A bottle that read "I'm going to kill you" had distorted ice crystals and contaminated water. What is this saying? Did his thoughts effect the water?

I dunno. Perhaps this article can explain it.
Quote:
Also in this movie, they explained that our minds can only let us see what we believe in.

Bullshit. Then why do I see new weird stuff every day? Why are we able to see sci-fi movies?
Quote:
For example, when Colmbus's ships approached land, the natives there could not see them. They could only see the ripples in the water. Why? Because they had never seen anything like these ships, and could not imagine them. Since they thought they didn't exist, their mind wouldn't let them see the ships.

Ah, yes. Because records hundreds of years old are REALLY reliable. More likely than not they simply did not see the ships.
Quote:
So maybe telekinesis is happening all the time, and our minds just won't let us see it. But if you believe, then you can see it. Maybe whenever we reach our hand out to grab a pencil, it simply floats to us. But since we can't quite comprehend that, our mind may create the illusion that our hand is reaching out to pick up this object. Maybe we don't believe in psi-balls. But when you really believe, it flares. Maybe you really don't have to put any extra "energy" into psi-balls to make them flare. Just belief.

Go ahead. Make a little fantasy world for yourself.


I didn't mean that we couldn't see everything we didn't believe in, just what we can't imagine. If a giant unknown object landed in your front yard, and it was massive, you may not be able to seeit because you have never imagined anything like it.
I have to agree, though, the Columbus thing could have been twisted and exagerrated, but scientists have tested this idea. The way our brain works, It does not let us see what we can't imagine. Think about it. What your eyes see is being changed a little by your brain. You are seeing what you can imagine. If you can't imagine something, then how can you see it? If you can't imagine its noise, how could you hear it?
This may seem like a fantasy, but this theory has been scientifically proved. If you can corretly imagine what a psi-ball looks like, maybe you could see it.
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Posted on Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:34 am

Grintoth_

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 41

Quote:
Bullshit. Then why do I see new weird stuff every day? Why are we able to see sci-fi movies?


We can see the things in sci-fi movies because we are able to imagine them and we know it is all fake. If we were told it was not fake, we would still be able to see it because we have seen it before. In order for us to not see something, it has to be very inimaginable. Something we've never even thought of before. As for the weird stuff we see every day, I'm sure we could imagine it on our own.
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Posted on Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:39 am

pants

Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 18

The what the bleep films were created by two members of a cult called RSE.* Contrary to what the film claims there is no science backing there ideas. There view of quantum physics is deeply flawed in two ways.

a) They have assumed the observer is a conscious being. It is pretty much certainly not, as shown by a rather neat experiment

http://www.ensmp.fr/aflb/AFLB-311/aflb311m387.pdf
or for those who despise adobe acrobat
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:kgJb2prr_W0J:www.ensmp.fr/aflb/AFLB-311/aflb311m387.pdf

b) The whole reason for much of what is going on around quantum physics is down to the fact quantum effects break down before arriving on the macro scale. Hence shrodingers cat not being both alive and dead. This film makes the baseless speculation that this is not true...

Though there is also the fact that even if quantum effects can happen on a sufficiently large scale, and you have a degree of conscious control on each particle. They provide no mechanism for how you would manipulate the trillions upon trillions of particles that form our reality in to the state you want.

As for the anecdotal evidence.

Emotos experiments are, more or less by his own admitance, unscientific. He doesnt believe in the very basic double blind procedures that should apply to any such test. (Wikipedia will give a good summary of how flawed this is and if you dig deeper Emoto is far from bothered.)

The columbus story is total nonsense. For one it has no basis in fact, there are no documents proving it. More importantly the story doesnt make any sense. It implies they come to grasp what it is they are seeing on the horizon over a period of time. This doesnt add up considering the Earth is a sphere and if you can see a ship heading towards you on the ocean it will be landing within a couple of hours. (Even if they are much older ships.) Oh that and the fact that they probably had ships of there own anyway...

On every level this film falls down. Bar one, positive attitude to life. Thats a fairly decent message to give. Its unfortunate that it is drowned in a sea of broken science, silly stories and RSE propaganda.

'This may seem like a fantasy, but this theory has been scientifically proved.'
I suspect you're typing rubbish. If we couldnt see anything we cant imagine how can we see anything at all? Short of having reality pre-programmed in to our brain at birth we'd never see anything. However, you have claimed this is scientifically proven so I will wait for the links to the papers that prove it.

Apologies if a lot of this is repeated information. I have already posted a rather long winded post on the 'Quantum Theory' thread in the 'Psychokinesis' board.

*Though im sure someone will object to it being called a cult the leader of the group is JZ Knight who channels a 35,000 year old atlantean warrior (Who can speak English but no other language.) They teach a form of creationism, levitation, teleportation, ESP and other such super powers and charge a significant quantity of money to do so. (They are _not_ a non profit organisation despite JZKnights millions in her bank.) Until this group produces a paper for peer review there is really no reason to believe this is any more than a money making cult.
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Posted on Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:53 pm

JOHNNYBEGOOD

Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 354

I love you, pants.
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Posted on Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:37 pm

LiveStrong7

Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 171

PK_11 wrote:
The columbus ship thing is, imo, just a poorly made rumor.

For example, how do we see that the earth is round if most people didn't believe that? How did scientists discover atoms when they had no knowledge of them and didn't believe they existed? etc etc...


However, for the most part belief is the key. So, your ideaology still holds. I like your thinking about the mind filling in the blanks, and I believe that happens alot.



I believe Democritus believed they did (I forgetXD) and not believing the Earth was round at that time is a common misconception. This is 9th grade western civilization...c'mon.

I'm kind of indifferent about the filling in the blanks. We don't know, it might be happening it might not. Belief I believe is a pretty good part too.
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Posted on Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:47 pm

Grintoth_

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 41

Okay, don't think of it as belief. I should have said imagination. Your mind only lets you see what you can imagine. If we can't imagine UFO's, then we can't see them. What we are seeing is our imagination. What we are seeing is real, yet part of our imagination.
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Posted on Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:11 am

JOHNNYBEGOOD

Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 354

Grintoth_ wrote:
Okay, don't think of it as belief. I should have said imagination. Your mind only lets you see what you can imagine. If we can't imagine UFO's, then we can't see them. What we are seeing is our imagination. What we are seeing is real, yet part of our imagination.
Why are you still bothering to defend a conclusion made from a debunked source?
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Posted on Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:09 pm

Grintoth_

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 41

I don't know. I'm starting to give up on psi a bit...
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Posted on Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:42 pm

UltimaRage

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 146

What's to give up on? Just because you cannot immediately flare up a psi ball to prove your affirmations, you throw it down the toilet? You sir are very closed minded. Also, how can we not see what we have not imagined? It doesn't change the fact that light is reflecting off the object and our eyes are designed to see whatever light reflects off from. Psi is real, because whenever I create a psi ball, I can feel the energy, no matter how subtle, moving down my arms forming the ball. There is a different feeling as it pools in my hands. It's all about practice and visualization. Do it every day. The closest I've come to flaring up was a little white dot in the middle of my psi ball construct. It was clearly visible. What's not to believe in. It's real. Get used to it.
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Posted on Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:06 pm

JOHNNYBEGOOD

Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 354

UltimaRage wrote:
What's to give up on? Just because you cannot immediately flare up a psi ball to prove your affirmations, you throw it down the toilet? You sir are very closed minded. Also, how can we not see what we have not imagined? It doesn't change the fact that light is reflecting off the object and our eyes are designed to see whatever light reflects off from. Psi is real, because whenever I create a psi ball, I can feel the energy, no matter how subtle, moving down my arms forming the ball. There is a different feeling as it pools in my hands. It's all about practice and visualization. Do it every day. The closest I've come to flaring up was a little white dot in the middle of my psi ball construct. It was clearly visible. What's not to believe in. It's real. Get used to it.
You friggin' retard! Read Pant's post!
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Posted on Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:22 pm

Polymer

Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 85

This debate is over whether what the bleep do we know is real or not. Not whether psi is real or not. I haven't heard very many good things about what the bleep do we know, and I doubt it is a very good source of information.
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Posted on Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:18 pm

derricktheone

Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 356

Sorry this is so long but I thought Grintoth might like to see some actual experiments in accordance to his comments on water and telepathy

Quote:
In 2003 at the Institute of Biomedical Problems of the Russian Academy of Sciences Russian scientist Stanislav Zenin upheld a thesis on water's memory. The thesis' author owns a laboratory and studied clathrates, stable compounds (that can live up to several hours!) consisting of 912 water molecules of half-micron or micron in size. You can even see them through the phase-contrast microscope. Clathrates are almost electrically neutral in distilled water. However, Zenin found out that their electroconductivity could be changed. Bonds between the clathrates' elements can be broken with the magnetic stirrer and then water becomes dead and unordered mixture. If a tiny amount (even one molecule) of any other substance is added into water clathrates start "adopting" its electromagnetic properties. In the end Zenin engaged psychics and healers - people who do not enjoy respect in the world of science - in his work on thesis. He found out that some representatives of this dubious occupation can change water's electroconductivity drastically with the power of their thought. Zenin defined water as substance in phase-informative state with a structure suitable for data storage. He called it a biological information tank. He distinguished water's primary and long-term memory. Primary memory becomes apparent after a single impact. It is a reversible change in water's structure and a reflection of the new electromagnetic picture on clathrates' surface. As for the long-term memory, it is a complete transformation of the matrix clathrates' structural elements as a result of long information influence. This means that you do not have to be a psychic to form a certain structure of water. It is enough to pass a certain emotion to water for some period of time.

The same conclusion was made by Japanese scientist Masaru Emoto. He discovered that water can really form ordered structures that turned out to be crystals. Each of them is unique and reflects the electromagnetic properties of water. Microcrystals are studied with the help of photographs. First of all, water drops placed into Petri dishes are quenched for two hours. Then they are placed into special apparatus that is a sort of refrigerator combined with microscope and camera. Here the newly-formed crystals are examined at temperature of 5C below zero. The most characteristic ones are photographed.

Dr. Emoto and his team study water from different sources of the world and also water that was effected by music, image, television, thoughts of a single person and a group of people, prayers, words typed or pronounced in different languages etc. Emoto discovered that there was a significant difference between crystals that listened to Beethoven and heavy-metal. Words "angel" and "devil" form structures that are similar and completely opposite at the same time.

Of course, Dr. Emoto can be also called a person with vivid imagination who uses equipment for purposes that have nothing to do with science. The Japanese scientist thinks that everything in this world possesses common vibration frequency, resonance wave (hado) that is able to transfer human emotions onto all surrounding objects. That is why one has to thank food that he/she eats, avoid negative emotions and pray more often. Such conclusions make scientific community laugh. But that is not always the case. Many researchers show interest in the findings of Dr. Emoto. Some are looking for the ways to transform processes that occur in water under the influence of electromagnetic radiation of the human brain into signals that are comprehensible for computer. In other words, they want to invent a computer that would be operated by thoughts. Others want to teach water storing the binary code. There are also those who try to find out if it is possible to change physical and chemical properties of water for special purposes (for instance, making it viscous in order to cool nuclear reactors with less energy consumption).


Pretty cool huh...Some of these scientists believe we'll eventually be able to have some kind of water computers controlled by telepathy
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