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| Intelligence- Humankind’s Greatest Flaw? | |||||||||
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| Posted on Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:54 pm | |||||||||
MartialArtist
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 |
In fact, it is the other way around. First you think, and then you feel. Emotions do not exist without a thought prior to their manifestation. So it is the mind, the thoughts that make us experience an emotion. |
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| Posted on Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:26 pm | |||||||||
Lightbringer
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 |
"Freedom from desire" doesn't mean "free from need" nor does it mean "free from compassion for others and willingness to help them" and nor freedom from obligations". There are still things enlightened people must do to survive in the society we live in. There is also a self-determined purpose they will pursue because they are manifestations of loving action. Without fear, prejudice or ego, they will help others in their lives. There is plenty to do without desire being involved. You simply don't understand desire-free, loving action because you've so rarely experienced it and so you can't conceive a person's entire existence being comprised of it.
Enlightenment does not come without emotions. In fact it comes with bliss far more pleasureable than the relatively minor emotions you currently feel. Again, the only reason you have such stilted views of enlightenment is because the only way you could life the way enlightened people do (in general, because their lives are extremely varied but they do have common aspects) is a terribly unhappy one. You've got so many desires that the life of an enlightened person would not satisfy them and so you'd be an emotionally-shutdown wreck, and so you've assumed all enlightened people are just total wrecks who refuse to accept that fact. The problem is that you're assuming the way they think and feel follows the same mechanism, which it doesn't and thus, they are in fact very happy and emotionally expressive. |
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| Posted on Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:13 pm | |||||||||
thegrogen
Joined: 18 Jun 2006 |
Any evidence? I've only seen evidence to the contrary, so you can understand if I'm a little skeptical. |
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| Posted on Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:10 am | |||||||||
Tankdown
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 |
In a small way its sort of ture....the amgydala picks the emotions from little evidence of memory and judge the correct reponse. So part of you thinks...its just so happen to be the part of you that controls how you feel.
Or I'm missing something. 
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| Posted on Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:13 am | |||||||||
thegrogen
Joined: 18 Jun 2006 |
I think it all depends on what the actual definition of "thinking" is... |
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| Posted on Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:21 am | |||||||||
Tankdown
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 |
O wait...DUH! It just occured to me.
I totaly forgot something. Even if emotions do choose what we do first, our thinking always have that final decision. And that memory of that experience is tranfer into our memory, and of cource that emotional memory is also recorded. Memories can always be review and thought about. Such as thinking about a father you may have hated, and finding some good things about him. In a way our emotions are simply what we have programed by what we have thought of before....we are still in control. Even how we feel is before what we can think. What we think can still control how we feel. |
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| Posted on Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:35 am | |||||||||
MartialArtist
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 |
Proof is simple. Imagine something happens to you, someone dies in front of your eyes. If you do not have one single thought about that situation, than you will not experience any emotion regarding that situation. If you do not have thoughts at all, you will not experience any emotion at all. Emotion is a sensation in the body triggered by thoughts. You said something as following: sometimes we feel even before we can think about it. I can understand why it seems like this is the case, but it isn't. You DID think before the emotion arised, however, these thoughts were very subtle and unconscious so you did not notice them. it were no conscious thoughts that you noticed, but it were automatically generated thoughts. Generated by the conditioned mind that has learned how to react on certain situations. So as I said: proof is simple: if something happens to you, you will think about it. It may be on a conscious level or on a unnoticeable level. But fact is, it were thoughts that created the emotions not the situtaion itself. If it really was the situation itself causing the emotion, than you would also experience an emotion about something that happens to you, even when your thoughts do not notice the situation. Imagine you are thinking intensely about a girl you just met at a party. You are not present at all in your current situation. you are walking home or something like that, thinking about her.. and something happens there that threathens you, or offends you or hurts someone else. It happens right in fron tog you, but you are so caught up in the thoughts about the girl, that there is no possibility for the mind to create thoughts on what just happened in front of your eyes: hence: you experience no emotion concerning that situation. Observe yourself when dealing with situations that seem to trigger anger or otehr emotions. Be alert, be conscious and observe your own mental activities. You will see that emotions comes after the first, quick thoughts that are most of the times unnoticable for our noisy minds. MA |
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| Posted on Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:30 pm | |||||||||
thegrogen
Joined: 18 Jun 2006 |
Good points, MA. I'll check it out. It does explain why people can have such good control over their emotions, and how I can make myself feel emotions when I like to. | ||||||||
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| Posted on Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:48 pm | |||||||||
Niushirra
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 |
What you guys are trying to argue is whether length came first or width came first. Each mental charateristics controls the others and is a product of the others. Perceptions trigger emotions that trigger thoughts that control the emotions and warp the way we perceive things. Sometimes perceptions do trigger thoughts first as MA said but it really is all just one big mess. This topic is about intelligence though and not thought or emotion. | ||||||||
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| Posted on Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:47 pm | |||||||||
thegrogen
Joined: 18 Jun 2006 |
Thought and emotion are such integral parts of intelligence that they have to be examined in our little discussion if we want to cover as much of the topic as we can, which is essential to our understanding of ourselves. |
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| Posted on Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:57 pm | |||||||||
Lasher
Joined: 24 Jun 2006 |
I think that neither intelligence, emotions, or thought are flawed. In general intelligence is intelligence; the capactiy to learn, think abastractly, and comprehend ideas. An emotion is a psychological response and thoughts are mental processes. I think the real flaw in humankind is free will. Any thoughts on this? | ||||||||
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| Posted on Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:50 pm | |||||||||
Lightbringer
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 |
Niushirra: It is true that once the initial unconscious thoughts are expressed, and the appropriate emotions are felt, then everything just turns into a messed up web of thoughts and emotion. However, you're only looking BACK on your experiences and seeing that convoluted web and assuming that's all there is, that there's no chronological order in which that web was made, no systematic process behind it.
Fact of the matter is our subconscious minds intercept and filter our sensory data before we ever consciously experience them. That same filtering process that skews our views of reality determines our emotions to more powerfully support those views it imposes. Lasher: If we didn't have free will, then there'd be no reason to ask about it. |
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| Posted on Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:12 pm | |||||||||
Tankdown
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 |
If we didn't have free will, we wouldnt be able to suffer. Without the ability to suffer, and we wouldnt understand the meaning between right and wrong. and many, many things go with it also.
Honestly I think mankinds greatest flaw is to think of him/her self infront of others. |
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| Posted on Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:03 pm | |||||||||
Niushirra
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 |
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| Posted on Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:02 am | |||||||||
psiready
Joined: 27 Feb 2006 |
The thing is, is that humans in essence don't really have free will.
Humans are machines like I said, the brain is you. At the moment my subconscious precedes my conscious, if I act, I act willfully, will which comes from the subconscious, if I decide, I decide on the logic and notions which come from the subconscious. If I do not act, then I have no will, therefore when I act I act on will. I am like a child, who thinks he is making big decisions but is really being guided by the hands of a teacher. Myself, I will listen to the logic of my subconscious, I have no reason to think things and to search for things if the subconscious does not give me things to search for and things to think. But in truth who is doing the thinking, because it is not you, who is searching, it is not you. I am acting on thoughts that are acting on me. It's like the conscious is half-blind and the subconscious produces phenomona. If you think about it, it is like neither exists but they both together cause confusion and pain. |
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