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A response to Martial Artist and what he said about chakras.
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Posted on Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:08 pm

Lightbringer

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 293

I doubt they will relax. People who are as dogmatic with their beliefs as Roy, DanielH and neveza are are obviously just overcompensating for the fact they KNOW they don't know. Their ignorance is scary to them. Why else would there be such a reaction to someone saying "I believe in chakras"?

If MA had said that all humans have 3 legs, they'd all laugh and be on their merry ways. But when he says he believes in chakras (not even claiming that chakras are factual, provable items), they all freak out. There's obviously something more going on here. Why is belief in chakras soooo incredibly wrong that these people must dedicate so much effort into disproving their existence, iradicating such a belief, and belittling not only those who believe in chakras but also those who support their right to believe in chakras.

I think the psipog staff should be addressing such a seriously debilitating attitude in the community because it's already gotten out of hand. Just look at the constant swearing and name-calling, it's obvious this topic should be locked and the people who can't maintain a civil attitude should be dealt with.
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Posted on Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:41 pm

JOHNNYBEGOOD

Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 354

Well, fine, if you're going to criticize DanielH for being contradictory, then I'll say it.

Chakras do not exist. Chakras are New Age Hippy Bullshit. Saying that the inabiliity to disprove the existence of chakras makes them real shifts the burden of proof to the negative. This is a logical fallacy.
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Posted on Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:55 pm

neveza

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 1147

You people piss me off...

Randy, It was a mistake! Dont' be a ass about it. I'm sorry I didn't copy the full quote...damn, It wouldn't matter, I would've said the same damn shit, you peice of shit. You're the one that started out with "Don't be moronic" I take that as a insult, I take it deeply, You could've at least put it in to words that wouldn't set me off.

I also wasn't "chopping" up your quote to make you look wrong, I'm just lazy.

I was talking about chakras on the proof part. Chakras aren't even visual. Psionics can be visiable, that why, Dan, Roy, and I are skeptical of the chakra since nothing(scientfic proof or visual) shows that it exists.

Lightbringer...oh..I hate you, I hate your avatar...I hate everything about you. (I dont' care if that gets me in trouble) I hate how you think you know everything, you biased piece of shit. I know enough, I will admit ignorance but so far, there isn't anything to show that I'm ignorant of the fact that chakras exists. Worst part is, you bring me into this fight, I just stated some things to show that there is more proof behind psionics then Chakras. I'm sorry I don't follow things so blindly as you fools do.

BTW, I swear out of hate and\or to add feeling, not for difference of opinions. Also, I have anger problems, I get bloodthirsty, I get ideas for daily house objects as weapons.

Edit : to make it "PG-13". (hope I don't have to edit it again)
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Posted on Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:19 pm

Roy

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 416

Lightbringer wrote:
I doubt they will relax. People who are as dogmatic with their beliefs as Roy, DanielH and neveza are are obviously just overcompensating for the fact they KNOW they don't know. Their ignorance is scary to them. Why else would there be such a reaction to someone saying "I believe in chakras"?

If MA had said that all humans have 3 legs, they'd all laugh and be on their merry ways. But when he says he believes in chakras (not even claiming that chakras are factual, provable items), they all freak out. There's obviously something more going on here. Why is belief in chakras soooo incredibly wrong that these people must dedicate so much effort into disproving their existence, iradicating such a belief, and belittling not only those who believe in chakras but also those who support their right to believe in chakras.

I think the psipog staff should be addressing such a seriously debilitating attitude in the community because it's already gotten out of hand. Just look at the constant swearing and name-calling, it's obvious this topic should be locked and the people who can't maintain a civil attitude should be dealt with.


I'm really sick of a lot of you people in the forums. I really don't care about chakras one way or the other. I responded to MA's original posts because I felt his views weren't being challenged enough. Now I'm supposedly a dickhead, according to Randywym, and ignorant, according to you. This is very tiresome to me. Now I understand why we need skeptics. Now I understand why people who believe in ESP have almost zero credibility in the eyes of the general populace. It's because you can't reason your way out of a paper bag using logic and critical thinking. There are many who can do this and who apply it to psionics, but the multitude do not, and that's where the common pitfall occurs: falling into the new age trap.

Johnnybegood, although very skeptical, is one of the smartest people I've seen on this forum, and I'm pretty glad he's around. He brings a sketical, logical, rational, and most importantly, intelligent viewpoint to any conversation he engages in and I think that should be commended. I'm sure he would agree with me that beliefs should be challenged. That is all my original post was intended to do: challenge, albeit in an aggressive way.

So, Lightbringer, I don't think this is a debilitating attitude. I think it is by far the healthiest attitude to have when addressing any topic regarding the paranormal. Although I do believe that people should cease the name calling and foul language, I will not let this topic become locked just because it is your will. It will be locked when it has run its course, and if there is still a lot of heated debate and strong emotions, then I doubt that it has run its course.
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Posted on Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:37 pm

randywm

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 510

Im sorry if it was offending to you Neveza, I find it equally offensive when what I say is taken differently. I understand it was a mistake now. Roy, I only said people were being dickheads to him because they werent stating their arguments. The people were talking as their opinion is truth and being overall disrespectful. Some were cussing him out and saying that he is moronic for believing in something different then them. That is not the proper way to debate and makes them seem like a jackass. You can tell him that you dont believe in chakras in such a better way. They will never have good discussions if they are calling the other people morons and such. Some people need to realize that their opinion isnt truth, including myself. You will never win an argument by calling the other side moronic and ignorant.



Neveza, the only reason I said dont be moronic was because I thought you chopped up what I said to make an attack and I am sorry. I didnt realize it was misinterpretation.
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Posted on Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:42 pm

randywm

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 510

JOHNNYBEGOOD wrote:
Well, fine, if you're going to criticize DanielH for being contradictory, then I'll say it.

Chakras do not exist. Chakras are New Age Hippy Bullshit. Saying that the inabiliity to disprove the existence of chakras makes them real shifts the burden of proof to the negative. This is a logical fallacy.


The same can be said for all the rest of psionic skills as well. Chakras may be "new age" but they have been around for quite some time now. Like I said I dont believe in them either, but totally tearing apart someones belief is not the proper way to go about it anyway.
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Posted on Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:19 pm

DanielH

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 479

Lightbringer wrote:
I doubt they will relax. People who are as dogmatic with their beliefs as Roy, DanielH and neveza are are obviously just overcompensating for the fact they KNOW they don't know. Their ignorance is scary to them. Why else would there be such a reaction to someone saying "I believe in chakras"?

If MA had said that all humans have 3 legs, they'd all laugh and be on their merry ways. But when he says he believes in chakras (not even claiming that chakras are factual, provable items), they all freak out. There's obviously something more going on here. Why is belief in chakras soooo incredibly wrong that these people must dedicate so much effort into disproving their existence, iradicating such a belief, and belittling not only those who believe in chakras but also those who support their right to believe in chakras.

I think the psipog staff should be addressing such a seriously debilitating attitude in the community because it's already gotten out of hand. Just look at the constant swearing and name-calling, it's obvious this topic should be locked and the people who can't maintain a civil attitude should be dealt with.


You're not being logical. If he said that people have three legs and people did believe him I WOULD respond. Hell, I'd probably respond even if they didn't. I just love to debate a number of topics and people.

This is the skeptic's area by the way. We ask for evidence. If I did believe in chakras... I'd believe in them BECAUSE OF EVIDENCE. Unlike some of you close minded people I require evidence before belief.

"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence."

--Thomas H. Huxley

I love that quote. Do you see what I'm talking about yet? Just because I think someone is wrong, crazy, trolling, etc doesn't mean I'll ignore them and go about my way. Sorry, but just because you think I'm supposed to or going to act one way doesn't mean I have to. Just because you offer me lots and lots of benefits doesn't mean they're true.

I'm sorry that you're so threatened by what we say that you have to respond to it yourself. I mean, you know "we're full of crap", but you keep responding. What's up with that?

Logic. It's a good thing. Let's use some more of it.

I say we give Johnny +5 bonus points.
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Posted on Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:32 am

MartialArtist

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 582

Neveza said:
Quote:
I was talking about chakras on the proof part. Chakras aren't even visual. Psionics can be visiable, that why, Dan, Roy, and I are skeptical of the chakra since nothing(scientfic proof or visual) shows that it exists.


Well about the visual part, I know alot of people, including myself, that claim to be able to see chakras. All you need to do is develop a subtle enough perception. It works exactly the same as in aura vision. You just have to train and focus in order to get the right perception which enables you to see these subtler energies, besides only seeing the gross, hard solid matter.


To the people who were somewhat trying to defend me, thanks for your effort, I appreciate that effort, but please don't do so anymore. It will only envoke more aggression. And also, others may identify me, with your words, while actually I do not feel offended by them. What does bother me however, is that alot of people in this debate lack respect. I don't like this atmosphere anymore, and It might scare of alot of decent intelligent members. It might hold them back from sharing their opinion next time. Is that what we want?

I'dd say: let's have a little more self-controll. Don't call the other person names, even when you feel anger. Challange eah others opinions and point of views, but don't get personal.

MA
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Posted on Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:50 am

DanielH

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 479

MartialArtist wrote:
Neveza said:
Quote:
I was talking about chakras on the proof part. Chakras aren't even visual. Psionics can be visiable, that why, Dan, Roy, and I are skeptical of the chakra since nothing(scientfic proof or visual) shows that it exists.


Well about the visual part, I know alot of people, including myself, that claim to be able to see chakras. All you need to do is develop a subtle enough perception. It works exactly the same as in aura vision. You just have to train and focus in order to get the right perception which enables you to see these subtler energies, besides only seeing the gross, hard solid matter.


To the people who were somewhat trying to defend me, thanks for your effort, I appreciate that effort, but please don't do so anymore. It will only envoke more aggression. And also, others may identify me, with your words, while actually I do not feel offended by them. What does bother me however, is that alot of people in this debate lack respect. I don't like this atmosphere anymore, and It might scare of alot of decent intelligent members. It might hold them back from sharing their opinion next time. Is that what we want?

I'dd say: let's have a little more self-controll. Don't call the other person names, even when you feel anger. Challange eah others opinions and point of views, but don't get personal.

MA


Sorry, but that's not evidence.

Well, you did a bit of mud slinging yourself.
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Posted on Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:33 pm

MartialArtist

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 582

Quote:
Sorry, but that's not evidence.


I did not claim it to be evidence. Just wanted to add some extra point of view on the visual part that Neveza talked about, so we got a little extra info based on personal experience to add to the subject.

Quote:
Well, you did a bit of mud slinging yourself.


I know. I allowed myself to be provoked. However, that still doesn't make it positive or benefical to continue this disrespectful attitude towards others; that's why I mentioned it again.
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Posted on Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:39 pm

DanielH

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 479

So, you're not giving us any evidence?
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Posted on Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:24 pm

MartialArtist

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 582

I do not think that is going to happen, it is rather hard. There are some methods which you can try for yourself so that you might experience these chakras with your hand. You will start to feel more pressure the moment you come closer to a chakra. But off course that is no evidence, it could just be some sensation you create yourself. So no, for now I have no evidence. I will be on the lookout. If I encounter anything relevant enough, I will add it to this chakra thread.

MA
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Posted on Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:35 pm

JOHNNYBEGOOD

Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 354

"The primary importance and level of existence of chakras is therefore posited to be in the psyche and in the spirit. However, there are those who believe that chakras have a physical manifestation as well. Although there is no evidence that Indian mystics made this association themselves, it is noted by many that there is a marked similarity between the positions and roles described for chakras, and the positions and roles of the glands in the endocrine system, and also by the positions of the nerve ganglia (also known as "plexuses") along the spinal column, opening the possibility that two vastly different systems of conceptualization have been brought to bear to systemize insights about the same phenomenon. By some, chakras are thought of as having their physical manifestation in the body as these glands, and their subjective manifestation as the associated psychological and spiritual experiences.

Indeed, the various hormones secreted by these glands do have a dramatic effect on human psychology, and an imbalance in one can cause a psychological or physical imbalance in a person. Whether these changes in body state have a bearing on spiritual matters is a subject of dissent even among the Indian theorists, and the different systems of conceptualization, Indian and Western, make only a partial convergence in this case.

Perhaps the most psychologically dramatic and potent secretion of these glands is the psychedelic drug DMT (which is thought to be synthesized by the pineal gland, corresponding to the brow chakra). At least in the West, some individuals have sought spiritual breakthroughs through the use of such chemical aids, occasionally referred to as entheogens in this context. (See for example: Aldous Huxley, The Doors of Perception, a classic of new-age spirituality.)" -wikipedia
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